[Switchblade]

I was looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the finale. It's probably the most controversial ending for a Rider series with the reset and all. It's at least the early Heisei version of Philip's fate from W in terms of love it/hate it reactions.

Can't wait to read your thoughts on the movie, where you finally get to meet my favorite non-Big Four Rider.

[Magnugiga]

Ryuki's was the first time ever I saw a Reset Ending I believe, which at the time was a cool and novel idea to me. Over the years, I can totally see though how this sort of ending could act as a cop-out/get out of the jail free card writers use to do whatever the hell they want with the plot and characters, instead of picking between the tough choices of uncompromisingly bleak ending or unrealistically happy one.

I had an argument when someone told me "you loved that ending in Ryuki, which doesn't make sense that you hate similar kind of ending in [insert show/comic name here]", but yeah, context and execution matter. A couple others in this thread already conveyed how I feel about this ending really well, but I'll just add that it's just really nice to see Tezuka, Ren, Kitaoka (tho I guess he's still going to die soon in any case), and most importantly, a happy, not bleeding and not dying Shinji, going about their regular lives, to cap off the series. Sometimes it's just really about how invested you are in the characters.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Can't wait to read your thoughts on the movie, where you finally get to meet my favorite non-Big Four Rider.

Just watched! Dinner's on the way, and then after that, uh... I got thoughts!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnugiga

Sometimes it's just really about how invested you are in the characters.

Yeah, I'm willing to forgive a lot in Ryuki because of how much I love these characters. Like, the knee-jerk of them all being alive is gratitude and relief. It's only after that where I started to dig into those feelings, try and figure out if there was more to it than caring so much that I wanted them back no matter what, and y'know, how that might've defeated the purpose of the series. It's complicated, but there's no denying that I'm happy they're all alive.

[Kamen Rider Die]

MASKED RIDER RYUKI - EPISODE FINAL MOVIE



Femme's a pretty interesting character. She's a mix of a few different established characters (Kitaoka's cunning, Ren's dedication to saving a loved one, a decent chunk of the Knight costume and weaponry, Reiko's assertiveness), but she manages to feel wholly original and also like a missing piece from Ryuki.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

Maybe Inoue should get into making Romcoms someday.

Well, uh, here it is! Miho and Shinji have excellent chemistry, and their scenes are when the film's at its best. Her subtlety and deceptions play great off of his gullibility and quick temper. His kindness and generosity spark against her distrusting, guarded nature. They're total opposites, but some terrific acting makes their antagonism realistically melt into respect and romance.

I'm not sure Kamen Rider does a lot of real romances? There's definitely chaste crushes, and a hospital wing's worth of women suffering from Endangered Girlfriend Syndrome, but actual dates, sexual chemistry, that shit is largely ignored. Not by everyone, though. I feel like I could subconsciously tell when Inoue wrote an episode of Ryuki because the show got 23% more horny. Men started to get more aggressive, women started to get more flirty, everyone started acting like the young people they are. It's the same thing in this movie, where immediately Shinji is getting eyerolls from Reiko over how protective he gets about Miho. And, like, yes, gorgeous. But there's some really great chemistry between them. They cast great on Miho, because I completely got what the two of them saw in each other, and that is invaluable when you've got to make her death matter in under an hour.

And, yeah, she dies. Romances like Miho and Shinji may not be a staple, but Doomed Romances sure as shit are. As soon as she started to fall for Shinji, really care about him, the axe was going to fall on her. It's a shame, but this is a one-off story, so this was all she was going to get anyway. As it was, I was thrilled that so much of this story, ostensibly about concluding the Ryuki story in a movie, was given over to the Miho/Shinji stuff. I definitely wish it had just been that, it's the best part of this movie, but I still enjoyed it.

The rest of the movie, though...

It's a real weird idea, to hand the secondary writer the reins to the movie, to let them take a run at wrapping up Ryuki. If I were Kobayashi, I don't know how much I'd love that? I get that, for production reasons, it was probably necessary to have an A/B team for TV versus special projects, but letting someone else do something called Episode Final? Gotta be some complicated emotions for Kobayashi on that one.

What's in this movie... it's fine. It's a movie that lacks the infuriating lows of the TV ending, but misses out on the transcendent highs. It's all middle.

The big improvement is the Mirror World stuff. It's still not the best thing ever, but it's coherent in a way that the TV show wasn't. Having young Yui make a deal with a Mirror Yui for a second chance at life, it's a much stronger way into that story. It's got a dark fairytale feel to it, with a child escaping to a world of fun before having to make a deal with an otherworldly force to return home. It also makes Yui culpable, creating a less-victimized aspect to her performance, more guilty than terrified. She has a role beyond being a damsel, and her choices stay hers for the duration of the movie. It's a way stronger ending for Yui than the TV show allowed her.

Everything else manages to feel a little more thought through, with a variety of quick explanations covering the weird lapses in storytelling from the show. It's not a ton of time spent to bring it up to the level of This Isn't Frustrating, which actually makes the TV show's version more frustrating. It doesn't seem, based on this movie, that it would've taken so much work to get the Mirror World stuff working on the show. Super disappointing, in retrospect.

But, while they could drag the floor up, they also lowered the ceiling. Everything that happens in the story is fairly predictable, and plays like a less-imaginative version of Ryuki. Characters are slowly whittled down, an Evil Version of Shinji is one of the final bosses (mirrors!), and there's a focus on just Ren versus Shinji at the end. It's sort-of what you'd expect of a show about mirrors and monsters (the black version of Dragreder is called Dragblacker, though, which is so exquisitely dumb that I need to pay it homage), which means it doesn't have the nuance or idiostyncratic touches of the TV finale. Kitaoka just leaves to go to lunch with Reiko, despite his illness. Asakura's final battle is with Miho, and he's mostly a victim of the new Big Bad, Ryuga. The mirror version of Shinji, it's a cool visual that 100% doesn't thematically fit this show. Like, what is Ryuga supposed to represent about Shinji's story? He's just evil, and wants to win the Rider Battle. Why? What does that have to do with the themes of sacrifice, of self-examination? The stuff that gets changed about the ending to Ryuki, it's all plot, no heart. It's constructive without being illuminating.

And that makes the process of watching this movie very fun for stretches (RomKamen Rider!), but it's a largely hollow endeavor. It's a fun story that cleans up the messiness of the TV show, but that messiness is what made it memorable. This one? I'll remember Femme (although, Jesus, why not just call her Kamen Rider Girl and be done with it), and that's probably all.

Oh! I'll also remember this as a STEALTH MOVIE WAR WITH LEGEND RIDERS!






Is that all of them? I think I got them all. When Shinji goes to that second restaurant to meet Miho, I thought the waiter might be Shouichi, and it was. And then Mana showed up! And all of Team G3! It was such a pleasant surprise!

Fun flick, and a nice dessert after the meal of Ryuki.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Is that all of them? I think I got them all.

Nope!



Missed Gills! Sorry, Gills! Thank you, Wiki! I actually managed to catch all of the others on my own, yay me.

[Kurona]

When I watched this I didn't quite catch Mana and Shouichi somehow; but I had to super double take at the G3 team, because I'd recognise them no matter what and I felt like I had to check my eyes. Funnily enough, I had the same reaction to Takeshi Hongou in Agito's movie! I'm sure if Kuuga had a movie he'd be not-teaming up with Kikaider and Momoranger.


As for the actual movie, uh... gestures vaguely to what you said and mumbles out a 'yeah'. That's about right. I'd agree with that generally. Liked Femme, pretty shit what happened to her; everything else definitely happened. It's one of those movies that left me with a big ol' feeling of nothing.

[GrandComplete]

Oh yeah the weird actor cameos this was a thing for early Heisei movies. But my thoughts on the finale it's okay I guess I much prefer Episode Final events if I were to be totally honest. And It all comes down to the reset the show kept touting about how there could only be 1 Rider and you that if you don't fight you won't survive completely erasing it was just off. It feels unearned basically it comes out of nowhere and it undoes all the hardships and growth of everyone. Like everything else the atmosphere,the cinematography, and emotions are great but it ultimatly feels pointless. In compairson Episode Final felt tighther I will agree it dosen't hit as high as the show but it felt more natural, everything resolves with the tragedy of Yui death, Shiro defeat and all but Shinji and Ren being left and it looks like they don't have much time left as the monster begins to invade the real world. There a sense finality to it. Plus I personally headcanon that the version of Ryuki we see in future crossovers is the one from Episode Final. It just makes sensd to me since there a chance he does survive since he never got that wound and bleed death.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurona

It's one of those movies that left me with a big ol' feeling of nothing.

It's technically proficient, but sort-of soulless. Real weird outcome, considering this is an Inoue version of ending Ryuki, and I really expected it to be more insane?

That said, making Shinji's original sin in Yui's fate that he stayed inside one day when he was a kid, and that that choice haunts Shinji so much he'd let an evil Shinji possess him and win the Rider Battles... *chef's kiss*. That is prime cut Inoue.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandComplete

Oh yeah the weird actor cameos this was a thing for early Heisei movies. But my thoughts on the finale it's okay I guess I much prefer Episode Final events if I were to be totally honest. And It all comes down to the reset the show kept touting about how there could only be 1 Rider and you that if you don't fight you won't survive completely erasing it was just off. It feels unearned basically it comes out of nowhere and it undoes all the hardships and growth of everyone. Like everything else the atmosphere,the cinematography, and emotions are great but it ultimatly feels pointless. In compairson Episode Final felt tighther I will agree it dosen't hit as high as the show but it felt more natural, everything resolves with the tragedy of Yui death, Shiro defeat and all but Shinji and Ren being left and it looks like they don't have much time left as the monster begins to invade the real world. There a sense finality to it. Plus I personally headcanon that the version of Ryuki we see in future crossovers is the one from Episode Final. It just makes sensd to me since there a chance he does survive since he never got that wound and bleed death.

Yeah, I feel like there's going to be a split on which is better, the movie ending or the TV ending. The movie's less frustrating, and that's going to be of (understandable!) value to a lot of fans.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

23% more horny.

One of the less well-known features of the Inoue Zone!

But yeah, Episode Final. Not a great movie! Also paradoxically high on my hypothetical list of favorite Rider films! Mostly due to nostalgia, I think. To this day, I love the direction of it. It's absolutely gorgeous. But the narrative, while thankfully not offensively bad, is never something I've really liked all that much. Whenever people say they prefer it over the TV ending, I almost do a double take as someone who values stories largely in terms of themes and raw emotions. The more literal improvements in stuff like how the Mirror World plot is handled don't do a whole lot for me when it feels like the movie is doing so little to provide meaningful closure to what the show was about. There's such a world of difference between Shinji and Ren's last conversation on TV, and the ending of the movie, you know? I also value structure and coherence, so I kind of get it, but if being messy is the price the TV show pays to be way more poignant, so be it.

Also, now that you're done with everything Ryuki, I have to ask: did it bother you the TV series didn't actually have 13 Riders?