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10-25-2020, 03:51 AM | #401 |
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I only saw the movie for the upgrade's backstory.
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10-25-2020, 05:55 AM | #402 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
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So the Hibiki movie was something I only watched the one time, which is pretty uncommon for me and Rider summer movies. When I say I don't remember much specific about Hibiki, this film epitomizes that. It left pretty much no impact on me whatsoever, and it seemed weird to me that as the first ever Inoue Hibiki thing, I was seeing people who are otherwise not fond of his work on the series say it was a fun flick. I figured there's no better time than now to give it another go, and...
I mean, yes it's fun, but I also feel obligated to resent everything it represents? Like, the very first thing in the movie is Hibiki riding a motorcycle into an action scene with Asumu in tow. It's basically declaring war on Hibiki as a concept from the first frame, and it never really lets up. All these big characters are amusing, but when I see the Oni from Hibiki posing in front of a f***ing napalm explosion, it's just like "which Sakamoto directed this again?" But to be fair, how else are you supposed to make The Big Movie Version of a series that based its entire identity on going as small as possible? Leaning into how paradoxical the whole concept is may very well have been the best option, and, again, crucially, it's something it's easy to imagine enjoying in a theater on a nice summer afternoon without thinking about it too much. Definitely far from my favorite Rider movie, but after watching it again, I totally get what people see in it.
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10-25-2020, 09:08 AM | #403 |
Standing By
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So the Hibiki movie was something I only watched the one time, which is pretty uncommon for me and Rider summer movies. When I say I don't remember much specific about Hibiki, this film epitomizes that. It left pretty much no impact on me whatsoever, and it seemed weird to me that as the first ever Inoue Hibiki thing, I was seeing people who are otherwise not fond of his work on the series say it was a fun flick. I figured there's no better time than now to give it another go, and...
I mean, yes it's fun, but I also feel obligated to resent everything it represents? Like, the very first thing in the movie is Hibiki riding a motorcycle into an action scene with Asumu in tow. It's basically declaring war on Hibiki as a concept from the first frame, and it never really lets up. All these big characters are amusing, but when I see the Oni from Hibiki posing in front of a f***ing napalm explosion, it's just like "which Sakamoto directed this again?". And as promised, now I'll explain why I think that! Hibiki's big summer movie focuses on a bunch of lookalikes while the actual characters from the show are moved to the background. That's a flawed premise! Even the movie itself seems to acknowledge how expendable these characters are by killing Akira at the start. If I'm not supposed to care about her, then why does the movie expect me to care about past Shounen or even past Mochida, when I only care a little about present Mochida? It's the same mistake with Aguilar in the Assassin's Creed movie, compared to the games which actually develop the historical characters. I need a reason to invest in these characters emotionally or it's not going to work. How does a Todoroki even exist in the past? I thought that name was only recently created after declining to inherit Zanki's name. This isn't a serious problem but it does sound like a plot hole. The Hibiki novel also focuses on a different Hibiki from the past and I think maybe that kind of premise works better as a novel, when you don't have visuals and faces attached to them so that I'm not constantly comparing to the show and a different set of characters who I'm inclined to care about. The movie is fine for expanding the lore but that's not enough from a summer movie. Telling a good story without the main characters isn't a story worth telling in that kind of theatrical medium. Furthermore, the novel is written by Kida, who probably understands and cares about the characters he's writing better than Inoue who just came in out nowhere and killed Akira. No offense to Inoue, he's a great writer responsible for my favorite Rider show, but I think the movie is an example of the worst parts of what's to come for Hibiki and I feel like Switchblade was referring to one of those parts in Episode 36 and 37. Of course, I'm glad there are people who enjoyed it. This is just how I feel.
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10-25-2020, 10:25 AM | #404 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
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So these two complaints kind of combine for me into why I like the Hibiki movie? Because a movie like this inherently has to be big and exciting and bombastic and everything that Hibiki isn't. ... so I think it's a pretty smart decision to not make it about the Hibiki characters and setting, but instead make it about the backstory. And that backstory is really quite nice! I'm able to buy the backstory of this series being a lot more explosive and action-packed because the backstory essentially is about how things became better, about how through the strife and tribulations those in the past went through; they were able to make things much better for their successors through creating Takeshi. This is something I want to get more into at some point, but... ... Okay, actually, no! We're at the end of this stretch so I'm getting into this now, screw it! Something very wonderful about the setting of Hibiki that stands out from the superhero genre is Takeshi and the support network it creates. It essentially codifies and brings together all these Oni, gives them all the support they need and has a system whereupon they can quickly back each other up and rely on each other as needed. Something about the superhero genre - that you'll well know, Die - is that there's an element to it where only this hero has this power to save the world; there's something only the main character is capable of and must do it or else we're all doomed, and while unstated a lot of the time, that's a hell of a lot of responsibility. If Ultraman Rosso and Blu have an off-day, the city's getting stomped by a monster. If Kamen Rider Wizard's having a bout of depression, it doesn't matter, he has to fight or someone's going to die. Superman can't ever be sick or the villains win. So like, that leads to a lot of problematic things about the genre that don't reflect the real situations and the realities of life they're to reflect -- just about any life path that involves life-or-death situations whether it be the fire service, or the army, or medical professions will at any time have a countless number of co-workers who are able to not just back you up, but are able to fill in for you and do exactly what you are capable of. This applies to any corner of life as well, and while of course all of these do have -immense- responsibility, the point I'm making here is that they're not situations whereby the existence and success of it all doesn't rely on a single person with specific unique skills being on standby 24/7. No matter what your potential anxiety and depression says - because, to hell with it, I can fit in a moral lesson here - you not being there during a bad situation does not mean you were responsible or that you were the only one capable of stopping it. There is never, ever a situation like this where you are the only one -- there will always be others like you who can do the same job, and despite all the responsibility you have it is still possible for you to have days off and your troubles and needs met and be able to live like a normal person. And I want to quickly say here that that doesn't mean this is an issue with the superhero genre so bad it causes it to crumble or that messages and stories can't succeed because of it -- I mean, if I believed that, I probably wouldn't be on this board watching and discussing superhero stuff all the time! I love shows like Kamen Rider Kuuga and Ultraman Orb where the title hero is the only hero around and doesn't have so much as a secondary to back him up! It's something that the genre is able to succeed in spite of, and in my opinion it's a problem that gets mitigated the more non-literal and metaphorical the story is, which is very often the case with Tokusatsu. And the reason I bring this whole college lecture up is that this is exactly why Takeshi is such, such a triumph of Hibiki for me and why I fell in love with this show and keep loving more the time goes on. Like those real-life professions, Oni do not have to be on-hand all the time, and they can actually have time off and while this specifically isn't gone into, the framing of Takeshi is as such that I could easily see the likes of sick days and mental health issues being covered for. It's an organisation which lets these superheroes live lives that allows them to be the confident comfortable characters they are -- like, fun fact; you know those oni notes you sometimes see throughout the show? We at one point see Eiki's, and among his other notes it states his active days on February: 1st - 2nd and 10th - 22nd. This is a superhero who got TWO WEEKS OFF IN FEBRUARY. That's just utterly mind-boggling and something that I can't imagine happening in any other piece of media in the genre! Like, even Hibiki, right? Compared to the likes of Agito or W, is he special or unique in his powers and abilities in any way that there's something only he'd be able to do? Well, he definitely appears to be one of the more adept Oni, at least within his region. He's one that the other Oni feel they can rely on a lot more, who is a teacher to many around him, and constant training has allowed him to gain a seasonal power-up. ... So, basically the thing that's special about Hibiki in all this is that he's a duty manager! He's got more responsibilities and abilities than his average co-worker and will take the lead in multiple situations, but ultimately if he were to be unavailable one day; it's not like they'd truly be in danger and it's clear there's other Oni that could be relied on. I just really like that this is a show where it feels like Todoroki could phone in and say he wouldn't be able to work next week, so Takeshi just checks their schedules and asks Sabaki or Danki to cover his workload and Todoroki could make up for it another time. It's a huge part of what makes this show so cosy and laidback compared to most other superhero shows. And this is why I like the movie, too -- because it shows how it got to that point. It shows what the Oni of the past struggled with; how their lone wolf natures constantly worked against them, how ostracization from the people hurt them, how a lack of support led to the evils of the world gaining so much power and even turning one of their own against them because the world brought so many tragedies upon him he had nothing left. I could go into so much detail about Kabuki alone at some point by the by, he's easily one of my favourite movie riders and in a franchise that hands out redemption like candy, this is one of the few characters I could believably see being redeemed and it amazingly never happens. Regardless, this is why it's such a good movie to me -- it's about overcoming evil by banding together and essentially creating a support network for each other; winning each other's trust and allyship in a way that leads to a new era where Oni don't have to be afraid of the world or each other or of anything, really. And there's a thousand stories like that in Toku, it's part of why I love the genre; but what makes this one truly special and what makes it stand out to me is that we see that beautiful new era, that shining future where everything's better in every single episode of Kamen Rider Hibiki. As backstory movies go, thematically this one is simply phenomenal. Helps that it's pretty fun, too!
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Last edited by Kurona; 10-25-2020 at 10:30 AM.. |
10-25-2020, 10:47 AM | #405 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
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No, but I really like that take on the Hibiki movie. I've never put any thought into how it connects to the TV show before, but seeing it as the triumphant beginning of the present day's Oni's system of teamwork really puts a much more heartwarming light on all of it. In the world of today (or at least, 2005), an oni like Kabuki would have turned out alright... |
10-25-2020, 10:54 AM | #406 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
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That's definitely a supremely compelling take in favor of the movie.
For the record, I actually do really like the whole twist that we're watching the foundations of Takeshi being built, and how it perfectly gels with what we told in the not-Inoue (i.e. authentic) chunk of the series – that it's a group started by people who were grateful to the Oni and wanted to help take the load off them.
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10-25-2020, 11:26 AM | #407 |
Showa Girl
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I'm maybe reading into him more than is intended but I felt for Kabuki so, so much; and as you say it's pretty clear he would have turned out great in a better world -- that's the tragedy of his story.
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Last edited by Kurona; 10-25-2020 at 11:28 AM.. |
10-25-2020, 11:31 AM | #408 |
take me to space
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Did you all watch the Director's Cut, when Kabuki gets an extra after his fight with Hibiki, when he tries to tell the big bad Makamou not to go after Asumu, and just gets told that he could never have become a Makamou before getting eaten by her? Honestly might be the only reason I'd recommend that version of the movie.
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10-25-2020, 11:43 AM | #409 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Not much to say here. It’s one of those “and you were there” movies that’s a patiche of the Seven Samurai. What I can say is that there’s a theme to the new Oni in this film.
Touki (Freezing Demon) and his polar bear motif are a reference to the Hokkaido-Nippon Ham Fighters. Habataki (Feathered Demon) takes his hawk motif from the Fukuoka SoftBank Hawks. Nishiki (Western Demon) takes his motif from the Osaka baseball team Hanshin Tigers. Kirameki (Glittering Demon) gets his look from the Nagoya Grampus’ image animal, the whale. Quote:
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It's possible, is all I'm saying! I am significantly less inclined to provide cover for Hibiki in the modern day calling Asumu by his name, though. That was my first big Uh No for this movie. Quote:
Hibiki's big summer movie focuses on a bunch of lookalikes while the actual characters from the show are moved to the background. That's a flawed premise! Even the movie itself seems to acknowledge how expendable these characters are by killing Akira at the start. If I'm not supposed to care about her, then why does the movie expect me to care about past Shounen or even past Mochida, when I only care a little about present Mochida?
I don't know. Worked for me! Quote:
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I guess my problem is that... I still don't think that makes it a Hibiki story? In the ways Hibiki tells stories? Hibiki as a show was never that interested in the mechanics of its world, it was interested in the people within it. It used this group (the branch of Takeshi) as a metaphor for society (parents need structures and support to raise children). The movie fills in the motivations, but it treats the structure itself as the good, rather than leveraging it to say something about growing up. Like, the show was about the people who worked in a building, while the movie told us how the building got built. I'm not sure that's as compelling a story to tell? Or one that adds anything to the modern-day characters?
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10-25-2020, 11:46 AM | #410 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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It's my favorite touch to him, as a villain, that he's specifically disappointed in human adults, not humans as a species. He comes off as someone who had a child-like appreciation of the world, and has had it ground out of him every time he gets chased out of a village. He's a tragic villain, for sure.
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