[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

The talk about Gon's name, her name comes as a short short for "nanashi no gonbei" (nameless person), which is said here that she is amnesiac and nameless, but given Gon as a name from that.

Did not know the etymology of her name, so thanks! I'm still going to think of her as a tiny dinosaur, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

And about the theme, it's more that we never really achieve anything alone... except if you're Tendou.

Tendou needed ZECT, though! And Kagami! It's a big part of the story!

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER KABUTO - EPISODE 17



Pretty fun episode of Kabuto! A lot of ups, and just a few downs.

Let's tackle the downs first, since they're less about this episode and more systemic. Namely, they're all related to this being the first part of a Kabuto two-parter, so get ready for people acting like complete assholes with no clear motivation (yet), and a plot that mostly revolves around When Exactly Did Tendou Figure It All Out.

The first part is the big flaw in this episode, even if I'd say it didn't really harm the story. Daisuke is almost unconscionably dismissive of Gon here, treating her alternately as a liar; a slacker; a pest; and an anchor. In the same way that the show wants there to be no confusion as to whether Kageyama deserves to burn (gleefully assaulting both women and children in one episode), there's just wall-to-wall Daisuke being awful in this chapter. Worse, it basically comes out of nowhere? I'm sure (I hope) the next episode will sketch in why Daisuke suddenly didn't give two shits about Gon's obvious terror, but here it's just him getting worse and worse until WAIT HE DOES CARE. It is... I do not love a surrogate father slowly abandoning his ward! It is not a fun thing to watch, especially when it's like Of Course Daisuke Actually Cares About Gon. There isn't shock or tension, there's just this steadily mounting disappointment in both Daisuke as a character, and Kabuto as a show. Him fighting Kabuto at the end, it's like... where was all of this at any other point in the episode. (He is so disinterested when she says a man grabbed her at night in a park! What the hell, Daisuke?!)

And, speaking of that fight with Kabuto, that's kind of the other downside of this one, and Kabuto stories kind of in general? I mean, it's a setup, right? Not from Daisuke, maybe, but Tendou has totally Clocked Up to what's going on here. He always does, which makes cliffhangers that put him in jeopardy sort of nonstarters for me. There is a trick, or a ruse, or a stratagem, and he'll do his Skinny Jeans Poirot thing later in the second part, where he lays out what's really been going on in the story, and... like, that's this show. I'm not completely mad at it, but there's a use of the formula that is wearing a little thin, and I really felt it at this episode's conclusion. I didn't buy the cliffhanger (the cut to the ZECT camera on ShootHopper's gun felt way too intentional), so the end of the episode was a bit of a shrug for me. It's something that's happened more than once for me on this show, where the tension of a plot evaporates because I never for a second think the dilemma has gotten away from Tendou. That's a structural flaw that... I mean, I'm only a third of the way through the show and it's becoming hard to dismiss. That's not great!

But, again, neither of those things really sank the episode for me. It's an inventively-shot story that focuses on Gon's past, Hiyori's compassion, and the ways found families carry within them a fear of abandonment that never goes away; while also making time for bathroom antics, quality fights, and an overconfident Kagami who will not stop telling his one story.

That Kagami story... I mean, the joke is how over it all of his friends are, but I never got tired of that gag. The way it keeps escalating in his mind, where he looks cooler and cooler the more he thinks about it, and how from the first telling of it in this episode Tendou wishes he made a different choice last episode to help him. But the fact that the episode kept visually embellishing it, it just sold the joke for me.

Similarly, Gon's flashbacks are, like, the version of Hiyori's flashbacks that I wanted. The way the world outside the bus is a children's drawing of the world, and Gon's mother's face is blurred out (wild guess: the woman who's interviewing Daisuke) because she can't make sense of it all yet... it's a lot of incredibly specific touches that make the tragedy of Gon's past something that feels like more than just some random accident. It's like Kagami's story, where it feels heightened, mythical. It's less an accident than an origin story.

Daisuke may spend the episode being total scum (Tendou's words, not mine, but also I would use those words), but there's a lot from Gon's side that makes him seem worth caring about. That little scene, when Gon asks to hold Hiyori's hand, and then drops it because it only feels right with Daisuke? My heart! I can only take so much sadness! And it's all so sad here, as Gon is so much more of a little girl than the Brains Of The Outfit we're used to. To see her need comfort, reassurance, and to look for it in Daisuke... it's doing this double-act of making him seem like a refuge, and then making it hurt more when he refuses to comfort Gon. It is taking a dynamic I was already invested in, and making it seem like its dissolution would be the end of the world.

And that's a theme that... I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into it, but it seems like it's exploring how precarious found families can feel. Found families are all over Kamen Rider (since, typically , ALL DADS ARE DEAD), as a group of weirdos and outcasts find strength in their friendships, elevating them into unbreakable bonds. But, there's always this sense that people could still leave that you don't get with your original family. There's a strength in choosing to say These People Are My Family, but it's still a choice, and that choice can always be unmade. God knows people can (and do!) choose to break familial connections all the time, but most stories are about how hard that is to do. You Can't Turn Your Back On Family and all that. But with Gon and Daisuke, it feels totally insecure, like an agreed-upon delusion. They're family as long as neither of them gets sick of it. Even in the beginning, Daisuke says he can't commit to always holding Gon's hand. Telling a story about that, how a found family is a constant, daily commitment to one another... that's a story I'm not sure I've seen before?

Like, I can't for a second argue with the stakes of this episode. Daisuke's motivation is frustratingly vague (he's a dick from the jump), and I don't believe Tendou's out of step on this one, but A Little Girl Needs Her Rider Dad is such a bulletproof idea for a story, I can't really come down too hard on the flaws. This episode was a machine designed to put my goddamn heart in a vice, and it did that with precision. Sort of terrified to watch the next episode!

A QUESTION

Kageyama! Boy oh boy, Kageyama. Him giving Gon that little smile, just before he abducts her? Pretty terrible! On a scale of 1 (Let's See Where This Goes) to 10 (I've Already Wiped Him From My Memory, Like Gon's Mom's Face), how done are you with Kageyama?

[Switchblade]

I'm in pretty much complete agreement over this one. Daisuke hasn't been around that long and he's been more in the background for a lot of that time, but he still feels really out of character here. I'm not sure why he's so callous here, but it definitely undercuts the entire episode to have it based around this abrupt turn.

Totally agree on Kagami's limited role in this one, too.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Totally agree on Kagami's limited role in this one, too.

The comedic timing on all of Kagami's storytelling is, maybe, a series highlight. The way he's always ending his story with Not To Brag! So perfect!

(The way Tendou groans out "That was all bragging"... So, so perfect!)

[Deepsea]

This sounds like a great episode of tv. Though I do think having daisuke not listen and be distracted would be better then having him be cruel. Daisuke has always come off as absent minded and not like fully paying attention.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deepsea

This sounds like a great episode of tv. Though I do think having daisuke not listen and be distracted would be better then having him be cruel. Daisuke has always come off as absent minded and not like fully paying attention.

Yeah, it gets off to not a great start with Daisuke responding to Gon's claims of scary men attacking children as Oh You Kids And Your Stories. Like, it's necessary for him to disregard the threat, or else the story goes very differently, but... I mean, Gon's never been set up as a fabulist? And there are literal monsters at work in Tokyo? Nothing she says feels too unreal to believe, so the fact that Daisuke immediately dismisses it... yeah, not a great start!

(The rest of it is more what you're asking for, where Daisuke isn't paying attention to how continuously spooked she is, and is being a petulant ass about her screwing up his moment in the spotlight. That stuff feels more in line with how he's previously been portrayed.)

[Androzani84]

Not much to say on the episode, beyond answering the question. I wasn’t quite done with Kageyama at this point, since I knew the best/worst was yet to come. And that’s all I’ll say, beyond this is the third episode of Kamen Rider to be called “Restored Memories”, with the previous 2 being in Agito and Faiz.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER KABUTO - EPISODE 17

Pretty fun episode of Kabuto! A lot of ups, and just a few downs.

Let’s tackle the downs first, since they’re less about this episode and more systemic. Namely, they’re all related to this being the first part of a Kabuto two-parter, so get ready for people acting like complete assholes with no clear motivation (yet), and a plot that mostly revolves around When Exactly Did Tendou Figure It All Out.

The first part is the big flaw in this episode, even if I’d say it didn’t really harm the story. Daisuke is almost unconscionably dismissive of Gon here, treating her alternately as a liar; a slacker; a pest; and an anchor. In the same way that the show wants there to be no confusion as to whether Kageyama deserves to burn (gleefully assaulting both women and children in one episode), there’s just wall-to-wall Daisuke being awful in this chapter. Worse, it basically comes out of nowhere? I’m sure (I hope) the next episode will sketch in why Daisuke suddenly didn’t give two shits about Gon’s obvious terror, but here it’s just him getting worse and worse until WAIT HE DOES CARE. It is… I do not love a surrogate father slowly abandoning his ward! It is not a fun thing to watch, especially when it’s like Of Course Daisuke Actually Cares About Gon. There isn’t shock or tension, there’s just this steadily mounting disappointment in both Daisuke as a character, and Kabuto as a show. Him fighting Kabuto at the end, it’s like… where was all of this at any other point in the episode. (He is so disinterested when she says a man grabbed her at night in a park! What the hell, Daisuke?!)

This is a major turning point for Daisuke's character development. He values his freedom, which is why Drake Zecter is attracted to him. Gon is his responsibility, a limit on his freedom since he needs to be emotionally available to her like holding her hand and protecting her from Worms and he doesn't enjoy that commitment. He considers her a burden, a feeling that is mutual considering how difficult Daisuke is to be around.

Gon obviously values her freedom as well, considering she's currently abducted and unhappy about it. But she doesn't want freedom from Daisuke, she feels safe with him even though he can be difficult and considers him her best friend. Her abduction is the catalyst for Daisuke realizing that he cares about something more than making girls beautiful. Gon is a burden he can't live without and she's the only person he truly cares about. Freedom without purpose is meaningless and that little girl gives him the motivation to be a better person.

Everything about their strained relationship in this arc with their conflict of needs and how their separation causes them to open up about their true feelings really connects with me and I really want to see them make up (haha, get it?) and become closer by accepting how they make each other feel safe and valued. I also want to see Kageyama get the Rider Shooting he deserves for splitting them up and generally being a terrible person. I love this arc and how it adds more depth to the unlikely friendship between Daisuke and Gon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

A QUESTION

Kageyama! Boy oh boy, Kageyama. Him giving Gon that little smile, just before he abducts her? Pretty terrible! On a scale of 1 (Let’s See Where This Goes) to 10 (I’ve Already Wiped Him From My Memory, Like Gon’s Mom’s Face), how done are you with Kageyama?

Yeah, you'd have to be pretty awful to abduct and ransom a little girl like Gon. I'm not sure how your scale works though. I hate Kageyama for his immoral actions but it's for the same reason that I can't forget him. That's like the whole point of his character. He should watch his back now cause Drake's going to make him pay!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Not much to say on the episode, beyond answering the question. I wasn’t quite done with Kageyama at this point, since I knew the best/worst was yet to come. And that’s all I’ll say, beyond this is the third episode of Kamen Rider to be called “Restored Memories”, with the previous 2 being in Agito and Faiz.

Yeah, nice observation, let's add that to the list of episode titles Inoue likes to repeat alongside "[x] Dies".

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

This is a major turning point for Daisuke's character development. He values his freedom, which is why Drake Zecter is attracted to him. Gon is his responsibility, a limit on his freedom since he needs to be emotionally available to her like holding her hand and protecting her from Worms and he doesn't enjoy that commitment. He considers her a burden, a feeling that is mutual considering how difficult Daisuke is to be around.

This is a thing that you've brought up, and maybe other people have, too, but I wish it were clearer in the show. I mean, I love this idea, that the emotions that create a Rider/Zecter partnership can wane, and how that effects the power of the Rider. The need to constantly embody one personality type at the risk of being unable to wield power? That is a very cool idea! I just feel like it's not really something the show is explicating that well. I'm not sure anyone's stated what the Zecters want, beyond a tough to define I Choose You thing. (Like, Yaguruma losing TheBee, or it picking Kagami... I'm not sure what TheBee's criteria is? No one really talks about it.)

It's a read I really love, and I super appreciate that you're able to pull that out of the show and share it... I just wish the show made it clearer?

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

This is a thing that you've brought up, and maybe other people have, too, but I wish it were clearer in the show. I mean, I love this idea, that the emotions that create a Rider/Zecter partnership can wane, and how that effects the power of the Rider. The need to constantly embody one personality type at the risk of being unable to wield power? That is a very cool idea! I just feel like it's not really something the show is explicating that well. I'm not sure anyone's stated what the Zecters want, beyond a tough to define I Choose You thing. (Like, Yaguruma losing TheBee, or it picking Kagami... I'm not sure what TheBee's criteria is? No one really talks about it.)

It's a read I really love, and I super appreciate that you're able to pull that out of the show and share it... I just wish the show made it clearer?

The connection between Riders and Zecters may also parallel the Worms, with the Zecters seeking out users based on a resonance with a trait or emotion they embody and admire in others. Since they're not exactly talkative, they're just as mysterious as ZECT itself and figuring out their criteria for selecting users is partially trial and error by observing who they bond with and what causes them to abandon a user.

The Bee Zecter abandons Yaguruma and Kagami when they exhibit internal conflict such as hesitation or doubt. So far, Kageyama is pretty consistent in his subordination to ZECT which seems to resonate with The Bee Zecter in a way that his predecessors couldn't live up to. I think the Zecters are deliberately made to be mysterious and abstract in what they want and why they value certain traits over others.