[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Which makes 26 so good for revealing itself to be the punishment for those boys thinking they could do it all alone. And all without a single speech highlighting the lesson!

You know, I didn't mention it, but the whole bit where it's revealed that ZECT was so not fooled by Kagami and Misaki's ruse that they literally brought him to some random building was great. Like, it is such an embarrassing moment for Kagami to walk off from Mishima in a proud huff, like he's going to bust into ZECT HQ and go smash up the place in righteous fury until the truth comes out... and then Mishima just starts dying of laugher waiting for him to realize what a dope he looks like.

And the thing is, it really was insane of Kagami to believe such transparent subterfuge was going to work! It's not like, some out of nowhere twist that's impossible to predict; His whole plan was cosplaying as Tadokoro and hoping for the best! He just foolhardily assumed a militarized organization of nebulous authority would be dumber than he is, which they obviously weren't, and that makes it work so much better with the overall message of the episode. This is why you need people around to support you Kagami! You're not great at espionage!

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

The thing is, that's not even half of what makes this episode so spectacular. This is an especially killer one on a rewatch. Much like Tendou, I'm sworn to secrecy about the things I know, so for Die's sake I can't go into too much detail, but everything this episode chooses to be about is massively relevant to later developments not only in terms of the literal hints it drops, but just emotionally and thematically, as well. It's some of the most considered writing I've seen yet on Kabuto.

Yeah, there are multiple pieces of this episode that resonate a lot with even my incomplete memory of where the show goes with them.

Since I'm coming in late to the discussion, I guess the big thing I'll focus on this time is the Worms. I'm not a huge fan of the Worms as a monster faction and I think this episode did a good job of highlighting some of my issues with them. We got some pretty decent character work with WorMisaki (love it - always a fan of a good portmanteau) and we're starting to get a good sense of Veil Lady Whose Name I Don't Remember. This stands out to me because it feels like it's been a long time since we got much characterization out of a Worm. For a species of shapeshifters, it feels like we mostly just see them as silent brutes. I'd love to see more things like the hesitant WorMisaki or the little boy from the Gatack premiere.

No real special toku plans for the day. Watched God Speed Love yesterday, still procrastinating the newest Saber. I thought about maybe throwing on my favorite first episode of a Rider show - Kamen Rider Black's - but ended up just watching Doctor Who reruns on TV all day instead.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

You know, I didn't mention it, but the whole bit where it's revealed that ZECT was so not fooled by Kagami and Misaki's ruse that they literally brought him to some random building was great. Like, it is such an embarrassing moment for Kagami to walk off from Mishima in a proud huff, like he's going to bust into ZECT HQ and go smash up the place in righteous fury until the truth comes out... and then Mishima just starts dying of laugher waiting for him to realize what a dope he looks like.

So, I didn't mention it before because I wasn't 100% certain, and after rewatching it I'm still not sure... but I think the joke is that ZECT brought him to the building they were interrogating Tendou in from 06. When Goro starts laughing, Kagami looks to the entrance of the building, and that's when he realizes they aren't at ZECT HQ. I think he recognizes the entrance from when he busted in to save Tendou. That's why Goro's laughing at Kagami; Kagami forgot that he busted into this place and it's not ZECT's headquarters!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Since I'm coming in late to the discussion, I guess the big thing I'll focus on this time is the Worms. I'm not a huge fan of the Worms as a monster faction and I think this episode did a good job of highlighting some of my issues with them. We got some pretty decent character work with WorMisaki (love it - always a fan of a good portmanteau) and we're starting to get a good sense of Veil Lady Whose Name I Don't Remember. This stands out to me because it feels like it's been a long time since we got much characterization out of a Worm. For a species of shapeshifters, it feels like we mostly just see them as silent brutes. I'd love to see more things like the hesitant WorMisaki or the little boy from the Gatack premiere.

The show is definitely delving more into the symbiosis of when the Worms dupe somebody, which I find fascinating (it leads to so many more cool twists), thematically-rich (you can be your own worst enemy sometimes), and probably foreshadowing (I got theories about Tendou!). It's way more compelling if they aren't just mindless killers or mute monsters.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

So, I didn't mention it before because I wasn't 100% certain, and after rewatching it I'm still not sure... but I think the joke is that ZECT brought him to the building they were interrogating Tendou in from 06. When Goro starts laughing, Kagami looks to the entrance of the building, and that's when he realizes they aren't at ZECT HQ. I think he recognizes the entrance from when he busted in to save Tendou. That's why Goro's laughing at Kagami; Kagami forgot that he busted into this place and it's not ZECT's headquarters!

I think you're probably right about that; great catch! Huh. They don't really show it from the same angles, but looking back at both episodes, it seems clear that's the same place, and it would explain Kagami's exact reaction, which has the tone of "wait crap i know where this is".

I have to say, it's a little on the subtle side if that's the intent, though. Like, even if I was sure right away it's the same filming location, without a line of dialogue outright confirming it in the narrative, I wouldn't put it past Toei to try and pass it off as a different place, you know?

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I have to say, it's a little on the subtle side if that's the intent, though. Like, even if I was sure right away it's the same filming location, without a line of dialogue outright confirming it in the narrative, I wouldn't put it past Toei to try and pass it off as a different place, you know?

Oh, for sure. It really could've used a drop-in from 06, like the shot when Kagami fakes out the guard. As it is... I mean, I think it's more of a knife-twist from ZECT if they picked a spot Kagami knew wasn't HQ, but it's not crucial to the reveal.

And, for a series that reuses locations as often as Kamen Rider does (quick shout-out to Delta Alley, which popped back up a couple episodes ago), I don't know if I'm on board with the suggestion that Toei would make a different location pass for an old one. It is always the other way around!

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It is always the other way around!

Then I must've mixed up some words, because that's exactly what I was trying to say.

Also, I'm now absolutely certain it IS both the same place they filmed at, and the same building ZECT uses in-universe, because I went and checked the credits again, and both 6 and 26 were directed by Takao Nagaishi, the guy I explicitly said is apparently known to pay extra attention to filming locations.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Also, I'm now absolutely certain it IS both the same place they filmed at, and the same building ZECT uses in-universe, because I went and checked the credits again, and both 6 and 26 were directed by Takao Nagaishi, the guy I explicitly said is apparently known to pay extra attention to filming locations.

See, now that we know that Goro was picking a location for "ZECT HQ" that was laughing at Kagami's obliviousness, I kind of wish he'd've picked a way more insulting location?

KAGAMI: Hiding ZECT's leadership inside this nondescript French restaurant? If you think that's going to stop me from getting at the truth about the Masked Rider Program, you don't know Kamen Rider Gatack! *razes La Salle to the ground* wait where am i actually

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

See, now that we know that Goro was picking a location for "ZECT HQ" that was laughing at Kagami's obliviousness, I kind of wish he'd've picked a way more insulting location?

Kamen Rider Gatack rampages through a mall as Mishima keeps telling him "no, no, our secret headquarters is in the store next to that one", while his squad of ZECTroopers sit in the background placing bets on how many people's livelihoods Kagami will destroy before he realizes they're only messing with him.

He only stops once Mishima finally gets bored the next morning.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Kamen Rider Gatack rampages through a mall as Mishima keeps telling him "no, no, our secret headquarters is in the store next to that one", while his squad of ZECTroopers sit in the background placing bets on how many people's livelihoods Kagami will destroy before he realizes they're only messing with him.

He only stops once Mishima finally gets bored the next morning.

Goro tells Kagami that ZECT HQ is a metaphor, that it actually exists within the hearts of everyone.

None are left alive.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Just a warning: I'm doing the write-up for God Speed Love now, and... I hope you're okay if this one goes pretty negative? If you liked GSL, I don't know, you are maybe going to want to skip this thread for a day or so, until 27.