[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER SABER EPISODE 10 - ?SWORDS UNITED, UNDER A SHARED BELIEF?

But then we get Kento finding out that Calibur (get ready for my shocked face) isn?t Kento?s dad, but Daichi, the previous Saber. This would normally be a good thing ? Kento?s dad isn?t Calibur, the big enemy everyone?s trying to defeat! ? but Daichi immediately goes Oh No Your Dad Totally Betrayed Everyone, so it?s a bit of a wash. (It also leads Kento to think Daichi maybe killed his dad, so we?ll see how bad this gets!) Added to that big reveal is the further dissipation of Touma?s Narratively Convenient Amnesia, as he finally puts together that the boy from his Two Guys, A Girl, And A Trauma Place memory is Kento, which is not at all new information for the audience. This is where I kind of lost my enthusiasm for this episode.

Yeah, the answer to "Who is Calibur?" isn't the most exciting twist ever, considering it's just some dude we've only seen in Touma's singular flashback of him. However, I think the new question, "Why is Kamijo Calibur, instead of Hayato?", is where this plot gets pretty clever. It doesn't immediately change anything we've learned about Hayato, he's still the original traitor, so now we need to find out why is Kamijo continuing to wage this war against SOL in his place. I appreciate how they got this twist done early, so they can move the mystery from the transparent "who" to the more obscure "why".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

(I?LL CLEAN UP) THE MESS THAT YOU ARE

Sometimes it's easier for people to spill their heart to an outsider, since there's less fear of being judged by them. Even Daishinji seems better at talking to his friends than Kento does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

What clinched it for me was when someone (Sophia?) was looking at a picture of her and Kento's dad and Daichi, and I was like It's For Sure Daichi.

Calibur was holding that picture in the Megid base. I like how that scene was shot so that Sophia and Hayato were in the dark and Kamijo was in the light. It's literal foreshadowing! There were other theories about Calibur's identity, even Tassel of all people (notice how his house goes dark when he starts talking about Kurayami)! But that picture left little doubt that it was Kamijo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

And speaking of forms, in this episode, we see that Touma can use Dragon with Saiyuu-ger to make a two book combo. While neither Kento or Rintaro will be doing so with Pegasus and Cerberus, you can do it with the toys, as these two videos of mine show off (one was specially made for this thread, the other was one I made a while ago).

I think it's a shame that Rintarou and Kento didn't make more use of their powers, or like maybe we could've seen Kenshin using Pegasus Lion in the flashback. I also wanted to see the alternate Issatsus, since there are unique sounds for those in Rekka, Nagare and Ikazuchi. Oh well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurona

Cmon guys, it?s fine, move on lol

I didn't get my turn though.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Yeah, the answer to "Who is Calibur?" isn't the most exciting twist ever, considering it's just some dude we've only seen in Touma's singular flashback of him. However, I think the new question, "Why is Kamijo Calibur, instead of Hayato?", is where this plot gets pretty clever. It doesn't immediately change anything we've learned about Hayato, he's still the original traitor, so now we need to find out why is Kamijo continuing to wage this war against SOL in his place. I appreciate how they got this twist done early, so they can move the mystery from the transparent "who" to the more obscure "why".

Yeah, it's a lot more compelling to me to learn how the guy we saw fighting Calibur 15 years ago is now Calibur. Also, I just... I just really love that Kento was like My Dad Didn't Betray The Sword Of Logos and then Calibur -- who is not taking any questions at this time -- is like LOL NOPE. It's such a fun reversal on what you think is going to be the redemption of Kento's dad's legacy, and then the villain is like No That Dude Sucked Too.

It's just a really good gag, you guys.

[Sunred]

Just gonna throw it out there Kenzan is Ryutaros 2.0.

[Layton13]

Ah, yes, that episode.

Whenever Saber starts pulling several plot threats together, a lot of the groundwork the series lays really gets to shine.

Sure, the twist isn't that surprising, but as others said, it is well executed and brings up many more questions.

That was one of those moments the series defiantly piqued my interest from fun watch to actually kinda invested.

[Fish Sandwich]

Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Saber Episode 10



And, complete with their very own "one for all, all for one", this show's Three Musketeers are officially formed! (Mei would be d'Artagnan, of course.) I think about this scene a ton. If there were ever a single scene that sort of represented the entire show, this is... well, one of them, anyway -- I'm not great at picking favorites. Rest assured, it's way up there, though. The chivalrous camaraderie of it, the gentle emotional support, even the lighthearted way they have Mei add that levity right at the end, it's all classic Saber. A really fantastic moment from an episode that's pretty dang great all around.

But uh, while I hate to break the whole spirit of unity and brotherhood and all that...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I'm sorry it was poorly phrased!

As well as you should be! If you remembered my lessons, Die, you would know that Kenzaki's iconic quote was actually phrased as a question, rather than an accusation!

(I genuinely was only 50/50 on whether that was a deliberate Blade reference until you confirmed it though.)

In all seriousness, however, I think you're going WAAAAY too hard on the episode's ending in that post, even beyond that particular line. You're talking about Touma there the way everyone I knew talked about Faiz before I met you. It's like the show used a storytelling tool you aren't personally fond of, and everything related to it warped -- even if ever so slightly -- to fit that preconceived perception. And like, that's just how opinions work, and I don't want to totally dismiss what you're saying there as baseless, but just... dang, I guess I needed to vent a little too? I can understand why you'd be frustrated by Narratively Convenient Amnesia, so I only hope you can in turn understand if it's sort of upsetting to hear a plot thread in a show I love this much described as "bad", "groan-worthy", "stupid", "cliche", "lazy", and "cheap", all in the space of a single paragraph.

I thought your story this time was pretty cute, by the way! Sorry I haven't been commenting about those at all! Feels like you're sort of starting to get in a good groove with them lately.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

That was one of those moments the series defiantly piqued my interest from fun watch to actually kinda invested.

Yeah, I think Episode 10 is a turning point for the show, in how it's trying to clarify a lot of the messiness of the previous episodes, and create a more immediate and pressing threat to our status quo. This is definitely a step up from previous Book Club and Calibur plots!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

In all seriousness, however, I think you're going WAAAAY too hard on the episode's ending in that post, even beyond that particular line. You're talking about Touma there the way everyone I knew talked about Faiz before I met you. It's like the show used a storytelling tool you aren't personally fond of, and everything related to it warped -- even if ever so slightly -- to fit that preconceived perception. And like, that's just how opinions work, and I don't want to totally dismiss what you're saying there as baseless, but just... dang, I guess I needed to vent a little too? I can understand why you'd be frustrated by Narratively Convenient Amnesia, so I only hope you can in turn understand if it's sort of upsetting to hear a plot thread in a show I love this much described as "bad", "groan-worthy", "stupid", "cliche", "lazy", and "cheap", all in the space of a single paragraph.

Ha ha, I did not think we were going to be of one mind on this! And that's okay!

I can't pretend that seeing this show start off on a path of Touma graciously declining to learn the terrible truth behind his friend's melancholy didn't also set a destination of me being furious when that truth was revealed at the absolute most disadvantageous time in the most uncontrollable way. It's just a giant bummer for me, to see this show improve in leaps and bounds across a variety of what I found to be weaknesses, only to conclude with one of my least favorite dramatic tropes.

I don't... I hope that doesn't come off as unfair or vindictive, though? I definitely tried to make clear what I thought the episode did well (and I think it did a bunch well!), even as I tried to explain the specific reasons for my dislike of that climax. I never ever ever want to be dismissive of these shows, even if I'm using words like Lazy and Cliche. Writers screw up! They make bad decisions! But, as I've maybe tried to live today, that's okay to call out? I don't think it lessens the scope of the show, or preclude the possibility of future greatness, to say that the conclusion to Touma's Narratively Convenient Amnesia was maybe not the most dramatically interesting option available.

But, y'know, you and I are coming at this from two different angles, even beyond our personal biases. I've only got ten episodes to judge, and no idea where these relationships and developments are going to go. You've got the length of the series, and a year's worth of (typically insightful) writing to go along with it. I would probably feel equally aggrieved if someone wanted to diminish an emotional conclusion to an Ex-Aid episode, if I felt they were ignoring relevant information to fit a preconceived notion. I don't know if I was doing that here? Or, if I was, know that I didn't mean to be unfair, and I'm sorry it was poorly phrased.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

And that's okay!

It's very okay!

I know you more than well enough by this point to know you would never actively try to be unfair to a show (and I don't think the criticism itself is unfair!), and the absolute last thing I want to do is dictate how you're "allowed" to express your honest opinion on a piece of media. I honestly feel pretty bad for bringing this up at all when already received similar sentiments from several people. I'm sorry if I poured salt on the wound here, Die.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I know you more than well enough by this point to know you would never actively try to be unfair to a show (and I don't think the criticism itself is unfair!), and the absolute last thing I want to do is dictate how you're "allowed" to express your honest opinion on a piece of media. I honestly feel pretty bad for bringing this up at all when already received similar sentiments from several people. I'm sorry if I poured salt on the wound here, Die.

You didn't! It would be super-hypocritical of me to spend several years telling two generations of Kamen Rider shows what they're doing wrong, and then bristle against other fans pushing back on my opinions. I'm more than happy to engage in a discussion about these shows, even if that discussion occasionally focuses on why I would have some of these specific opinions and choose to voice them publicly instead of examining them more closely and not voicing them publicly.

Like I told Kurona earlier, I am okay taking my lumps when I write something that either offends or disappoints! Failure is a natural part of trying, and we should never stop trying. I learned that from Blade! Which is a show I quoted from and it lead to people being offended and/or disappointed!

[Fish Sandwich]

Oh, and speaking of things we feel very differently about? I keep forgetting to mention how much I dig Touma's right-off-the-runway bold sense of fashion? All his outfits were apparently thought up by the same person who designed Jin's suit in the later half of Zero-One, which explains a lot about Touma's fashion sense. But like, I think it works! Considered in the context of being the show after Zero-One, especially, it makes for a nice contrast with how barely-business, mostly-casual Aruto's outfits tended to be.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Oh, and speaking of things we feel very differently about? I keep forgetting to mention how much I dig Touma's right-off-the-runway bold sense of fashion? All his outfits were apparently thought up by the same person who designed Jin's suit in the later half of Zero-One, which explains a lot about Touma's fashion sense. But like, I think it works! Considered in the context of being the show after Zero-One, especially, it makes for a nice contrast with how barely-business, mostly-casual Aruto's outfits tended to be.

Get out. We can't be friends anymore! This is too contrary of a take, even for you!