[Enchilada645]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I'm probably going to spend most of the next day walking back my dislike of this episode, because that's how my brain works.

What I sort of appreciate about this episode is that it starts with Kento dying, so the story is more about If You Had One Last Day, you know? And Kento wants to spend it with his friends, sword in hand, fighting back the forces of darkness. Like, the last episode was Kento The Loner, and this second episode is Kento The Friend. It's sort of sweet, if you look at it that way.

That's... an interesting take that I didn't really think of to be honest.

Kind of makes me think better on the episode when I look at it at that angle.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

That's... an interesting take that I didn't really think of to be honest.

Kind of makes me think better on the episode when I look at it at that angle.

Me too, which is infuriating. I just spent an hour writing up how dumb and bad this episode was! I don't like figuring out that it's actually sort of good and smart! I was told that we weren't supposed to change our minds on the internet!

[Androzani84]

And here we are at the debut of Dragonic Knight…

And I hate it.

Aside from those same people En-chan brought up repeating it ad hominem, it just doesn’t look like one of Saber’s (the Rider) suits. It just looks like a dolled up costume from a generic knight themed show that was never scripted. The sword crown and the belt are all it has going in terms of visual continuity or congruity. It doesn’t even really have a good belt jingle.

The giant dragon flashily ridden by a class of knights in a Dramatic Battle…

In short, the class of knight has evolved!

In other words, he’s strong!

And yet, I ended up buying the book. Entirely because it was part of a package deal for one I actually wanted. But since I got the Booster (the Ryuki-esque arm gauntlet the form sports), I was able to produce these videos, showing how it interacts with the book and the sword parts of the Swordriver.

https://youtube.com/shorts/nCrjS7U46Pg?feature=share

[Nokination]

Yeah, I've got to agree with you on this episode, while I like the first half well enough and some parts of the second, my main issue is that Kento's "death" didn't really work for me?

It just felt like a retread of last episode's ending, except this time, it's "for real", and even with that, I won't lie, I have zero faith that Kento or anyone in Kamen Rider who dies this early one will actually remain "dead". As you said in your post, I'm pretty sure due to that shot of the Calibur sword, that Kento will return as the new Calibur or something, and even if he doesn't, I'm still almost entirely certain that he won't remain dead.

Besides that, I also don't like Dragonic Knight's design, maybe it's because it's mostly just a repaint of the regular suit, except with more silver, I don't know the exact reason, it just doesn't work for me. Also, I don't really like how Touma got the power-up, it's stated to be because of Luna or something? I dislike how the Wonder Ride Book just flies over to Touma because he said he wouldn't give up, something which I'm pretty sure he's already said numerous times before, but I guess since he has his memories back, it does something now? Maybe they'll elaborate on it later, but for now, I dislike it.

Aside from that, this episode was decent? I still did like the first half, and I didn't entirely hate the second half, it might be the worst Saber episode so far for me, but even then, it's not enough to make me drop the show or anything, I just hope that the show improves from here on out.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER SABER EPISODE 13 - ?I WILL, PIERCE THROUGH, WITH MY CONVICTIONS?

The bulk of the episode, though? it was pleasant in that Explosions and New Suits way a Kamen Rider episode can be, but I never felt like it moved me. Kento?s death/?death? felt so? I don?t know, forced? Kento?s been trying to get himself killed for the last half-dozen episodes, and it looks like he finally succeeded. Touma?s anger and self-recrimination over being unable to save Kento felt like someone being angry at themselves for not stopping a sunset. Kento?s not a person you can save, man! Just ask Mei! Like some of my problems throughout the first act, this development feels too rushed to feel organic or preventable, which are the things that usually make character deaths hit hard. Suicidal Swordsman Gets Murdered isn?t a plot that shakes me up, you know?

Considering how many people, including myself, thought he already died last episode, instead of cursed by Kurayami, I guess your apathetic reaction isn't that uncommon, struggling to muster the same melancholy as that scene. Last episode we were unprepared for it, but this episode is mostly building back up to that happening once more, for real, without the same level of uncertainty and suspense. However, I do like how this time is more focused on Kento's feelings towards the other Swordsmen as well, not just Touma, I think it's still an emotionally strong scene. There's probably more to talk about for Espada Retsuden though.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

But, like a lot of Kamen Rider deaths, it feels erroneous to discuss it as an end to Kento?s story. It certainly looks like Calibur?s sword exerts a necromantic pull on swordsmen, where each victim becomes the next host. I?m assuming Kento?s dad killed Kamijo 15 years ago, which is when Kamijo became the new bearer of the Sword of Shadows. Now it?s probably Kento, at least for an act or two. But we?ll find out soon!

Hmm, but Kamijo already told Kento that he cut down Hayato. As punishment for betraying SOL and to stop him from causing more harm.

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Originally Posted by Enchilada645

Though of course uh... unfortunately thanks to the limitations of live action, from what I've heard, Dragonic Knight is not the sturdiest of suits.

Apparently, this is the reason why Zi-O Decade Armor Time Saber used Brave Dragon as the base.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

And here we are at the debut of Dragonic Knight?

And I hate it.

Aside from those same people En-chan brought up repeating it ad hominem, it just doesn?t look like one of Saber?s (the Rider) suits. It just looks like a dolled up costume from a generic knight themed show that was never scripted. The sword crown and the belt are all it has going in terms of visual continuity or congruity. It doesn?t even really have a good belt jingle.

While I wouldn't go as far as saying I hate it, I agree that it's pretty lame and overrated. Kind of just looks like an all-silver Jaou Dragon but without the cool details that make me love Jaou. The emphasis on Saber riding his red dragon seems like something he should've been able to do easily anyway, considering how we saw Rintarou casually riding his blue lion in to Fantastic Kamiyama in his first appearance. Oh, there's the ridiculous name, "Dragonic", which is like, why? Draconic is already a word! Overall, least favorite Saber form.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER SABER EPISODE 13 - “I WILL, PIERCE THROUGH, WITH MY CONVICTIONS”

Some of it is that, I don’t know, it’s a lot of people yelling TOUMA and KENTO for twenty minutes? Even for the Kento Dies (well, “Dies”; we’ll get to that) episode, this veered into the histrionic end of the acting spectrum pretty quickly. I can handle maybe a couple minutes of that per episode. Once it becomes Mei blowing out her vocal chords to find an even louder version of TOUMA to scream, it’s beyond diminishing returns; it’s actively taking me out of the story. It’s the sort of acting and/or directing choice that kills my ability to see past the artifice and enjoy the narrative. I’m just like Find A Different Note To Play, and that hampers my emotional investment.

And this'd be the reason of why a good number of people find Mei annoying. You've said that you liked Mei, but I guess even you aren't immune to being annoyed at this part of the show. I do think poor Mei though of being quite treated like crap by the people on SoL like Ogami, due to her being someone normal and non-fighter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

(This is a minor part of my coldness to this episode, but: when and why did this become solely Touma’s problem to solve? This is a story about the power of friendship, and how Kento’s martyrdom robbed him of the best tool to defeat Calibur. But the second half of this episode is everyone screaming at Touma to save Kento, and then everyone laying there while Touma generates a powerup to defeat Calibur single-handed. It would’ve been nice if this episode about the power of friendship used that friendship as more than just a way for Touma to feel supported and become powerful enough to do things by himself!)

Yeah this is the memetic portrayal of the power of friendship that is only used as a weak justification for someone to power up and win the fight. This is one of the reasons Touma is disliked, and dunno (as a first time watcher) if this aspect of him will take more focus later on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

But, weirdly, the thing I liked the best this time is what I usually roll my eyes at, which is Kamijo saying Universal Truth as an unquestionable justification of his actions from the last 15 years. I liked it here because it brought the metaphor into focus: Universal truth is the antithesis of storytelling and fiction. Universal truth is verifiable, and objective. Storytelling is subjective, and personal. Calibur loses because his goal doesn’t allow for unexpected events or empathy, the two things fairy tales and folklore thrive on. Pitting a novelist against the cold logic of Calibur is an incredibly clever concept, even if the show tends to reduce Calibur to a remorseless supervillain with a couple catchphrases.

Now this seems to be a good analysis of re-evaluating Daichi's universal truth seekings, and even more fitting that it happens in a story about storytelling. Touma achieving his Dragonic Knight form is something that's beyond what Daichi used in the past of seemingly only being stuck on base Saber, unless Daichi somehow can take Saber on equally high level in the past. Only the main protagonist seemingly takes the Rider into unreachable height for anyone else starting from his Dragonic Knight here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The bulk of the episode, though… it was pleasant in that Explosions and New Suits way a Kamen Rider episode can be, but I never felt like it moved me. Kento’s death/”death” felt so… I don’t know, forced? Kento’s been trying to get himself killed for the last half-dozen episodes, and it looks like he finally succeeded. Touma’s anger and self-recrimination over being unable to save Kento felt like someone being angry at themselves for not stopping a sunset. Kento’s not a person you can save, man! Just ask Mei! Like some of my problems throughout the first act, this development feels too rushed to feel organic or preventable, which are the things that usually make character deaths hit hard. Suicidal Swordsman Gets Murdered isn’t a plot that shakes me up, you know?

It kinda makes sense that Touma would be angered as not stopping a sunset, noble characters like him do will get angry over something out of their control, which shows how empathetic they're to try creating best outcomes for anyone (especially as someone constantly making promises), but that can be something self-destructive. Even Touma's new powerup can't save him just like previous episode. Regarding Kento, yeah this'd be a dark path for him, especially for someone that holds so much emotional baggage. About everyone mourning for him though, I wonder what'd be Kento's appeal to Ren for him to simp for Kento.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

While I wouldn't go as far as saying I hate it, I agree that it's pretty lame and overrated. Kind of just looks like an all-silver Jaou Dragon but without the cool details that make me love Jaou. The emphasis on Saber riding his red dragon seems like something he should've been able to do easily anyway, considering how we saw Rintarou casually riding his blue lion in to Fantastic Kamiyama in his first appearance. Oh, there's the ridiculous name, "Dragonic", which is like, why? Draconic is already a word! Overall, least favorite Saber form.

While being able to go through Sophia and maybe Luna, so this'd be something in Saber that you dislike.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nokination

Also, I don't really like how Touma got the power-up, it's stated to be because of Luna or something? I dislike how the Wonder Ride Book just flies over to Touma because he said he wouldn't give up, something which I'm pretty sure he's already said numerous times before, but I guess since he has his memories back, it does something now?

Every real knight needs his fair lady (and in this regard, Ren, as usual, turned somewhere else). So it is precisely this role that the Luna plays here, or rather, memories of it. This is also a kind of tribute to the classic chivalric novels, because Toma still does not know anything about the real Luna and performs feats in the name of the image from his memory. Well, for the sake of my friends, of course, but also for the sake of saving the world and a good plot for a future book. In a word, the more reasons to fight, the brighter the sword burns.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Aside from those same people En-chan brought up repeating it ad hominem, it just doesn?t look like one of Saber?s (the Rider) suits. It just looks like a dolled up costume from a generic knight themed show that was never scripted. The sword crown and the belt are all it has going in terms of visual continuity or congruity. It doesn?t even really have a good belt jingle.

I can't disagree with any of that, and I'd probably add that I don't love the visual that the affection that people have for Touma becomes a barrier between him and the world, but I still think this suit looks slick as hell. I almost don't care that it's stylistically a misfire, or thematically troublesome, since it just looks imposing and arresting. Definitely love it as a suit, even if it's hard to argue for it as a Saber suit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nokination

Aside from that, this episode was decent? I still did like the first half, and I didn't entirely hate the second half, it might be the worst Saber episode so far for me, but even then, it's not enough to make me drop the show or anything, I just hope that the show improves from here on out.

Yeah, I don't think this episode not working for some (most?) of us is a huge deal, in the scheme of the series. They took a swing at something, it didn't really connect, let's all move on. I'd almost rather them biff it on this stuff than aim lower, you know?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Considering how many people, including myself, thought he already died last episode, instead of cursed by Kurayami, I guess your apathetic reaction isn't that uncommon, struggling to muster the same melancholy as that scene.

Yeah, it's another one of those times where this shows explains the stakes well after the action, which is a great way to feel like there aren't any rules. Calibur's sword now doles out curses! That only Calibur's sword can break! OKAY SURE GOTCHA. I feel like this is maybe something that the show could've brought up earlier, in previous episodes, since the entire Sword of Logos seems to instantly diagnose both Kento's malady and the cure?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Hmm, but Kamijo already told Kento that he cut down Hayato. As punishment for betraying SOL and to stop him from causing more harm.

Sure, but why should we trust Kamijo? Show me the body, or I'm still skeptical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

And this'd be the reason of why a good number of people find Mei annoying. You've said that you liked Mei, but I guess even you aren't immune to being annoyed at this part of the show. I do think poor Mei though of being quite treated like crap by the people on SoL like Ogami, due to her being someone normal and non-fighter.

At least she's got that glowing book now, so she can take on the role of alerting the heroes to monsters. We're only a floating anthropomorphic book puppet away from this show playing all of the Ghost hits!

[Mmicb0b]

this isn't the point where Saber gets good(your unfortunately 10 episodes away from that but the worst of it's over) but your at the piint where it stops spending so much time on mysteries that aren't hard to figure out, we still got two more captain obvious reveal mysteries(really only one as admittedly the 2nd one did somewhat stump me but we'll get to both of those when we do) but fortunately the show doesn't spend AS MUCH Time on either one of said mysteries) IMO Geats does a better job of this structure because it gives you breadcrumb's about the protagonist's past but doesn't do it like this

[AkibaSilver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Sure, but why should we trust Kamijo? Show me the body, or I'm still skeptical.

I know you're just throwing this out as an off-handed comment, but this is one of my own personal gripes with this part of the series - everyone takes Calibur right at his word, with no cross-checking besides "Well, he's a villain, why would he lie?"And I know it's a common trope, but it still takes me somewhat out of it.

But on the other side, Kento. I was convinced he'd died last episode, but here he is... to get cursed by an evil sword. There's something special in how he's so determined to get himself killed, he takes last episode's cliffhanger and decides to do it properly. No matter what the narrative says about this being the time he almost dies and realises he should rely on his friends, he's determined to be the sacrificial lamb.