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01-29-2023, 12:17 PM | #431 |
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Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Saber Episode 16
I only sort of realized it at the time, but if there was exactly one moment where I can say I truly fell in love with Kamen Rider Saber, when I knew it was going to be a show I'd pretty much never stop thinking about, that would stick with me forever, it was probably watching all the other Riders gang up on Saber this way. There's that part in there, where everything slows down and the sad music kicks in, as we see Touma's face and hear his thoughts, and he's just scared and confused and hurt by what's happening, as much emotionally as physically, and I found that kind of profound in a way I'm still not sure I can properly articulate. But you know, I even tried again in the episode thread a few hours after already saying basically the same thing in my original post, so looking back, it's clear this really did leave an immediate lasting impact on me: Quote:
Thinking about this episode even more after I made that last post, something jumped out at me about this episode that I think really sums up why it's worthy of some praise -- they made Kamen Riders fighting each other feel like a big deal again.
That's shocking to me, especially rewatching so much Kabuto at the moment. That whole trope is so baked into the franchise at this point there's no way it should ever come off as fresh, but this episode made me instantly grow a huge appreciation for all the plotting decisions the first quarter made. The way it actively pushed the "yay teamwork" message so hard, and the specific character traits the show did make the time to properly establish, and all these other things; it felt like they were really coming together in a meaningful way. But yeah, the gist of it is like I said at the time: I was shocked to be watching a Kamen Rider show where I felt this level of emotional significance to the heroes beating each other up, and putting how wrong Saber managed to make that feel in context of the show up until that point, it kind of locked in that I was never going to complain too hard about anything the first quarter had done to get here. For whatever flaws the storytelling in Saber had up to this point, they did an amazing job building to this twist in the narrative, and the moment itself was delivered in a way that exceeded any expectations I had about how well the show could pull it off. And I was on-board with this show from day one! ...All of that means I'm also extremely relieved to see it worked well enough for Die, too, naturally, because this episode means so much to me it'd just feel vulgar trying to argue about it? It's sad enough watching Touma fight his friends! I don't want to be adding onto that in real life! (I still wish somebody would've translated Yuri's use of saikou as "brilliant", by the way, but this is actually about as good?)
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01-29-2023, 12:24 PM | #432 |
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KAMEN RIDER SABER EPISODE 16 - ?SAVING THE WORLD, THE RAY OF LIGHT?
It?s an interesting way the show chooses to explore this question; namely, by having this close group of friends IMMEDIATELY fracture and fight at the first whiff of dissension and/or betrayal. Kamijo only yesterday suggested to Touma that the Sword of Logos is up to no good and that Touma might have to choose between honoring his promise and siding with his friends, so here?s Reika to turn everyone against each other to draw out Yuri. It?s a plot that, in typical Saber fashion, eschews a slow burn of character-motivated paranoia and natural workplace incompatibility by just having Reika take control of the Northern Base, whisper lies into everyone?s ears, and then wait for the sparks to fly. Quote:
There is some actual character-based conflict, though, which is why this episode worked for me. While Reika pushes everyone into a standoff, things only get really bad when Touma suggests that the guy who murdered Kento and conspired with despotic fiction monsters might have a point. It?s the sort of empathetic A Broken Clock Is Right Twice A Day argument that lands easily with a fellow SoL outsider like Mei, where both she and Touma can telescope out Handling Kento to a point where he?d?ve likely become Kamijo, therefore finding some possible humanity within Kamijo. But it?s got about zero traction with the soldiers who?ve been risking their lives to defend multiple worlds from Kamijo?s nihilistic zealotry, and the people who loved Kento the most. It?s a neat escalation throughout the argument, because a lot of it just comes down to both sides not being willing to hear the other out. Touma?s goal of ferreting out a traitor was always going to piss off his coworkers, and his inability to appeal to their sense of justice dooms this friendship to failure. Reika might?ve lit the fuse, but this bomb was already there.
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Not that this is, like, the smoothest episode around. We?re in a transitional space, where we?re getting some restated background on Touma?s overall goals (Luna, traitor) as well as the Book Club?s revised plan of attack. (I really love the little fortnightly Kamen Rider stories where someone gets turned into a monster and the Riders have to find some way to liberate the victim, so this is already more interesting to me than a random Megid showing up in a plaza.) There?s a lot of side-stories filling out this already-packed episode of heroes battling heroes, which doesn?t do the components a ton of favors. There?s a lot of ground to cover on the Touma section of this episode alone, leaving the book victim stuff to feel slightly irrelevant at the present. It?s not a distraction, exactly, but it doesn?t add anything to the main story.
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I was pleasantly surprised by how much this episode came together for me. When Kamijo?s warning took about eight seconds to make Touma an outcast from his friends, hunted as a traitor, I was like That Was Fast. But then the show pulled back the reins a bit, and let the characters? lingering resentments and lack of shared history pit the Sword of Logos against Touma and Mei (and debuting swordsman/sword-man Yuri) in a way that feels inevitable. It?s an episode that starts exploring something I find fascinating, which is how we imbue organizations with power and personality due to the people within them, but then forget that said power and personality is only there because of those people. Touma and the other swordsmen see the Sword of Logos as something worth protecting or destroying, but it?s really just a collection of people. We lose sight of that to our peril, which is what everyone discovered this episode.
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Oma Zi-O considered himself to have succeeded in becoming the greatest kindest demon king even after murdering half the planet and he's definitely not dependent on publicity since everyone hates him and even his IWAE man is secretly in cahoots with Quartzer to usurp him. Zi-O VS Decade also implies that overuse of his powers to create and destroy worlds turned Sougo insane, so his sense of morality is no longer in check with reality.
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Gai is a narcissist, whose delusions of moral perfection are enabled by the validation he receives from society and the formative childhood trauma that pushed him to be 1000%. When revealing his involvement in Ark's corruption, he's totally oblivious to his culpability, instead citing humanity's malice for making Ark inclined towards genocide. Gai believes he merely provided an education and insists that Ark's conclusions from that are its own. Notice how it's only when his publicity is threatened that he's forced to evaluate his morality, where he realizes that he's actually a terrible person.
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01-29-2023, 03:16 PM | #433 |
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As for the episode, I remember sharing an argument that someone else on another forum had tried and failed to use to rationalise how quickly everyone turned on Touma over some new woman. And while I don?t remember more than the exact specifics (maybe Fish can help with the words), I had a better time convincing people of it than he did.
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I remember two years ago this episode caused a lot of controversy and I'm glad it doesn't happen again. I mean, yes, you can't blame the knights for seeing the story "Saber defeated Calibur and became Calibur himself" repeated. Just as one cannot blame Tom for not thinking of a secret investigation, because he did not expect such a reaction from his friends.
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But yeah, the gist of it is like I said at the time: I was shocked to be watching a Kamen Rider show where I felt this level of emotional significance to the heroes beating each other up, and putting how wrong Saber managed to make that feel in context of the show up until that point, it kind of locked in that I was never going to complain too hard about anything the first quarter had done to get here.
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I'd think Ogami and Daishinji's turn against Touma was something that happened too quick though, or at least, again for me, suffers in lack of what's shown during Hayato or Kamijo's time with them (if they'd emphasize the past betrayal moments as the reason), like what was them as a person like when they're together with those 2 and was them strikingly similar to Touma, or that they're just starting conflict for the sake of it.
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01-29-2023, 03:44 PM | #434 |
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Yeah, the start of this arc, it's not that I don't get it - Touma suddenly asking "Hey gang, I know Calibur was trying to cause the apocalypse and all, but maybe he had a point?" is going to get everyone's heckles up, from Ogami and Daishinji's more rational "Touma, put down your sword and lets talk this out", to Rintarou's "You would really accuse the SOL like this? HAVE YOU REALLY BETRAYED US?" to Ren's... I mean, Ren has probably been looking for an excuse to fight this new contender for the former-Kento's affections for 10 episodes now.
It just happens really, really fast? I get the argument all the speeches about everlasting teamwork from the last several episodes make this even more crushing when the fellowship does splinter in twain - if I were more unpleasantly cynical I'd say it's a scathing critique of Kamen Rider protagonist's tendencies to throw these out whenever - but the fact remains, this all goes down in about the same length of time they'd spend on a bike chase in Phase 1 Heisei. Plus, it always felt like a big leap to me Touma would just take Calibur's words at face value, especially when (minus one Ren), everyone he's met from the SOL has been genuinely decent? Maybe it's a worldbuildng thing, because even now, after having watched the entire show, I still have no idea how big or powerful this organisation is supposed to be. Covid restricions, I know. Maybe Touma had a dramatic confrontation with the person who restocks their magical library bookshelves and that's why he thinks the SOL is more shady that its letting on. It's not that I don't like the path the show wants to do - definitely more "traditional" Rider with a lone Touma and a bunch who distrust him - but how it got there is a little ungainly, and I think I let that colour my thoughts on this arc, which is kinda a shame. But enough about that, cause here's Yuri! He's cool!
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01-29-2023, 05:25 PM | #435 |
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Like, it's a story not so much about Touma turning against the SoL, as it is Touma not understanding how much of themselves his friends put into the organization. Also, even if Touma was uncertain about the veracity of Someone In The Sword Of Logos Is Up To No Good, four friends rolling up and telling him that Reika said he was a traitor is probably going to connect a couple dots for Touma.
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01-29-2023, 06:19 PM | #436 |
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One thing I read that made me laugh slightly is someone pointing out that while we get whole scenes of Ogami, Daishinji and Rintaro being misled by Reika, Ren doesn’t even get such a scene, implying hat she didn’t even need to try with him.
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01-29-2023, 06:25 PM | #437 |
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Ren was just wandering by; he's not even sure what everyone else is mad about!
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01-29-2023, 10:03 PM | #438 |
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TTFC DIRECT THEATER: KAMEN RIDER SABER, ACT 1 - “SABER, LET YOUR HEART SHINE!”
I don’t… know what this is? It’s some little twelve-minute bluescreen video, with Unreal Engine backdrops and one non-suit actor. (Smile! From Zero-One! Which is nice!) The whole thing’s like a one-act stage play, but filmed? I don’t know why? It’s very, uh, rough. It barely looks professional, even by the comparative standards of TTFC Special and Stage Play and COVID. I don’t understand why it’s like this? Or what it’s for? As its own little Fight Scene Plus Moral special, it’s fine. A character we’ve never met before has a problem that’s only revealed when it becomes crucial information to conclude the plot, which is a thoroughly Saber way to tell this story. The stunts are stage show-esque, with a lot of tumbling and long takes, rather than the more robust and energetic camerawork we see on TV. It’s all very simple, is I guess what I want to say about it. It’s like the type of Saber story you’d put on the back of the box for the show-adjacent breakfast cereal. (Saber Flakes: “I’ll decide how this complete breakfast ends!”) It’s cute, at best. There’s virtually nothing to unpack or analyze, because it’s not really trying to tell a story with any depth. It’s a 12-minute stage show on the internet. Nice to see Smile again, I guess! — WE’VE GOT YOUR BACK Well, that was that. Junki called off from work. He told his parents he wouldn’t be coming by for dinner tonight. He texted friends to let them know he might be unavailable for the foreseeable future. He let them all know that he was fine, but that he needed to keep cheering for Kamen Rider Saber. It was only through the grace of the crimson swordsman that Junki was returned to the real world, instead of eternally imprisoned by an army of black-and-silver mute monsters. Junki knew he was delivered from evil, and he owed his life to Saber. When Saber commanded that Junki keep cheering, that was exactly what Junki intended to do. Well, Junki wasn’t sure if “commanded” was the right word. While he was hopeful that Saber had saved him due to heroism, there was a fear that Saber would be a wrathful savior. Junki wasn’t certain what might happen if he stopped cheering for Saber: would the monsters return, and Saber might be unable to summon enough power to defeat them; or would Saber return, and angrily smite his subjects for failing him? Junki thought it best not to tempt fate, and decided the most rational course of action was to just keep cheering. He’d never really cheered anyone on before, though, so he had to do some research. He’d tried yelling WE LOVE YOU SABER and LET’S GO SABER, but that wasn’t a long-term plan. For one, his voice was giving out after only a few hours of shouting, which meant he’d very quickly be physically unable to follow Saber’s instructions. For another, his neighbor’s shouted threat to break down Junki’s door and quiet him for good meant that, again, Saber would lose the required cheers. So that was a wash. He tried prayer, but… that wasn’t really “cheering”, was it? That was asking Saber for help, and he certainly didn’t want to be a distraction or a nuisance. Saber wanted support, not a burden. It was a Google search for “cheering on costumed people” that brought him success. It was for an idol group, but Junki figured the same advice would carry over for a superhero. Not only would he be able to cheer on Saber, but he’d be able to get his life back. He could see his parents. He could see his friends. He could sleep and eat and bathe, without worrying that the selfish minutes would bring doom upon him. He could even go back to work. He’d have to go back to work, actually. The Google search gave him the helpful tip, but only a full-time job was going to keep him in Saber’s good graces. Junki added the items to his Amazon cart – DX swords, Figuarts, plush dolls, art prints, plastic statues, card sleeves, Blu-rays, CDs, rubber coasters – and hoped this was enough to cheer Saber on.
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01-29-2023, 10:07 PM | #439 |
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I definitely don't think Ogami and Daishinji are stirring shit here. Ogami is the main voice of reason before the fight starts, and he's just trying to disarm Touma so things can get discussed safely. Ogami and Daishinji missed two of their friends going off the deep end and endangering others, and are not keen for a repeat.
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01-29-2023, 10:15 PM | #440 |
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Ah yes the exitensial crisis of cheering Saber on. Cute little fun story in which I had no idea if you'd even do one because I only just now realized what this was a couple of hours ago.
Funny that I'm starting with the story this time because uh... I'll be entirely honest again, I forgot these things existed? They're this weird sort of miniature stage show thing that I guess and I mean I'm really guessing with this theory, it was sort of meant to be a replacement for like... the actual stage shows that used to happen back before the pandemic started. And I do not mean the Final Stages or Special Stages that exist that are performed on a large stage. I'm literally talking about the one's that would happen at theme parks, small outdoor stages and the like. If you look up correctly on Youtube you get a fun variety of stageshows, like Ghost teaming up with Blade and Chalice, Ghost, Wizard and Kiva teaming up, Build fighting the Build Bugster alongside the CR Riders, etc. At least... I can only assume that's what this is supposed to be given this was made during uncertain Covid times, I think. |
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