[Layton13]

Been a bit...

But I'll just say one thing: I love this arc! It is exactly what all other Rider Wars were lacking for me, characters you want to succeed pitted against each other. These are all unmistakably heroes, maybe minus Ren, but their morals force them into conflict.

It just feels earned all the worse in a good way.

As for Yuri, instantly loved him, he is both funny and compelling. He feels like a completely innocent little child and a world-weary warrior who cast his humanity aside. And seeing him rekindle that what he lost is just beautiful!

The fights with Daishinji are great and really nail the fantasy swords and sorcery aspect of the show.

And lastly, this is where I went from enjoying Touma to adoring him. The way he drags his beaten and bloodied ass to the battlefield to save a life. The determination, the fire, the sheer heroism is just impressive and feels so damn earned.

Yeah... Fuck, this is good!

[Fish Sandwich]

Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Saber Episode 22

This is about the point where my old posts about the episodes start getting noticeably longer, and from what I remember, they don't really stop, which is how you know I was actually starting to consciously realize Saber was special to me. I spend a lot of time talking in this particular one about how much I'd come around on Touma, but it's like, I was so totally absorbed in all of these guys by this point I just sort of naturally got fired up to dig into their adventures more and more, even though it often takes more time than I'd like to write up even that much. (And by the way, Die, this thread's fan-fiction shtick is reminding me all over how impressed I am by your endurance.)

But yeah, the show moved from what I felt was a thrilling act-one climax into this little trilogy of more leisurely paced, utterly rock solid three-parters, and cementing Touma as my favorite Rider in the show very much put everything in place for the show to just keep leaping to greater heights from here.

Die finally made a remark about the repetitive nature of Touma's speeches lately, but again, I really appreciate that the show decided to drill into his attitude towards heroism this thoroughly. The repetition in the formula these last six episodes have had is eased a lot for me because it's like the show's three writers all taking their own crack as the same base idea, and I think they each end up emphasizing different details. I remember feeling like Hasegawa here maybe made the actual nuts and bolts mechanics of the monster plot the most engaging, but when he was right there writing so much Double back in the day, it's hardly surprising he does well with this sort of thing.

The other thing that eases up the repetition is that, like I said, I consider these two-parters a sort of trilogy, and the plot will be picking some speed back up with some new wrinkles and twists shortly. I feel the month and a half spent with the foot on the brake was pretty much just the right length to reorient the series a bit. We stripped things down to the absolute basics with Touma, Mei, and Yuri, and now we're gradually wrapping the other Riders back in, except now there's like a ton of extra dramatic weight behind it. I feel like I'm probably rambling in circles again here, but yeah, I don't know, this episode was real good, and Saber's real cool, as ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

These are all unmistakably heroes, maybe minus Ren

Wow, you'll let Ren off with just a "maybe" here; that's very generous!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Saber-text is called Ridermoji.

Is it, actually? I was going to bring that up, but I can't actually remember where that came from. I know I saw it a lot before the show actually started airing, but every official source I've seen since only ever refers to it as like, "the ancient script" or whatever. I've been under the impression it doesn't really have a particular name?

[AkibaSilver]

Yeah, I feel like this arc of Saber is a lot like the Job Arc of 01 (controversial, I know). We move through each Rider in turn, focusing on their own motivations and reasons specifically for allying with Touma, and how they each see the SOL. We have our MOTW 2-parters again, but while they're less essential to the plot, I still find them fun and well-put together, especially since it shows some creative thinking from the Book Squad now they don't have Calibur around to hold them back or whatever.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

Yeah, I feel like this arc of Saber is a lot like the Job Arc of 01 (controversial, I know)

I was thinking of making that comparison myself, actually. I think you can pretty easily make the argument there are some broad similarities, at the very least, even if I feel like there's a good chance they'd start seeming very different again once you start digging into details.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Ok, I remember quite a bit more than I thought. Well, I?ll have something less ramble-y next time, with a few debuts.

I'm looking forward to it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

That's an interesting take on Ogami's motivation. The Sora part was clear already, since he often talks about wanting to protect the future Sora will live in and of course he'd take offense to Reika suggesting he put SOL before his family. You're right though, it's true that Ogami acts as a father to Rintarou as well, due to taking over that role from Kenshin after Zooous killed him. He doesn't want to cause Rintarou even more distress. Regarding Ren, someone definitely needs to keep him in check and stop Reika manipulating him further, so I can see why Ogami would worry what would happen to him by leaving him behind.

I like how the show sort of differs Ogami's motivation from Rintaro's, even if they're both unwilling to throw in the towel on the SoL. Rintaro values the organization, which (because an organization isn't a person) doesn't value him in the same way, so he's sort of trapped in his exceedingly unhealthy dynamic. With Ogami, he values the people within the organization -- the kids who came after him, especially -- which both allows him to see how messed up Reika's leadership is, while still forcing him to stay and protect his sword babies. It's, as always, some deft character work!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Like that there's some real opposition to Reika, with Ogami standing up for Daishinji as Reika continues her gaslighting. However Ogami still submits to her wants currently by fighting Toum. I even feel that this episode quite downplays that problem in Ogami just nonchalantly informing Mei that Touma's alive at the end.

Reika pretty hilariously overplays her hand in this one, trying to run the same lie on Daishinji that she did on Touma. Problem is, Ogami's known Daishinji for YEARS, not months, so he's about zero percent falling for some speculative He Must Be Mad With Power nonsense. I love how mad Ogami gets at her throwing Daishinji under the bus! It's great!

Also... I don't know, it's not like Ogami didn't try to defeat Touma? He got King Of Arthur back, which isn't nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Yes, the riders in the Saber are chic and beautifully crafted considering how many of them there are. What is no less surprising is that each of them has something to do, even if it is completely in the background. And yes, Ogami is now at a crossroads and will have to choose sides again in the future. Also, the story is beautiful and the characters are conveyed very accurately.

They really are! I think the only character who's been underserved in this storyline (besides Desast, who I miss terribly) is Rintaro, but that's relative to the spotlights everyone else has received. Rintaro still got some fun scenes! And it's probably better if Rintaro frets at the Southern Base, 'cause it just makes this whole thing sadder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

And lastly, this is where I went from enjoying Touma to adoring him. The way he drags his beaten and bloodied ass to the battlefield to save a life. The determination, the fire, the sheer heroism is just impressive and feels so damn earned.

The only thing it was missing was Touma saying "The only one who can save you... is ME!" Oh, wait, wrong Rider.

I kid! It was a very fun, very heroic moment for Touma.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

We stripped things down to the absolute basics with Touma, Mei, and Yuri, and now we're gradually wrapping the other Riders back in, except now there's like a ton of extra dramatic weight behind it. I feel like I'm probably rambling in circles again here, but yeah, I don't know, this episode was real good, and Saber's real cool, as ever.

The amount of effort it's taking to reform Touma's support network makes for the best drama this show has had yet. Nothin about it seems easy, and even the people who've joined him, outside of Mei, feel like they could abandon him if he loses his moral compass. Things are very... tentative, I guess? And I like that aspect a lot. I like that there isn't the inherent gravity of the primary Rider, where everyone's destined to alter their worldview to align with his.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

Yeah, I feel like this arc of Saber is a lot like the Job Arc of 01 (controversial, I know). We move through each Rider in turn, focusing on their own motivations and reasons specifically for allying with Touma, and how they each see the SOL.

I think there're some similarities, yeah. The Zero-One stuff was a bit more focused on how Aruto's protectiveness of Humagears was tested and enhanced, with the various Humagear quandaries asking him to grow his own perspective, while this arc sort of goes in the opposite direction; it's a lot more about how the other Riders view Touma, and what they need from him as a teammate. But I like both!

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER SABER EPISODE 23 - “AND SO IT RAMPAGES, THE HAND OF DESTRUCTION”



I love berserk forms.

Berserk forms are wrong, which is such an interesting way to deconstruct and challenge our assumptions about a character, a show. It’s your steadfast, empathetic hero becoming a bottomless well of animalistic rage, or nihilistic destruction. The suits are severe instead of playful. The tone is Everything Has Gotten Worse. There’s no glory in this new power-up, just fear.

It’s especially nice to have a berserk form debut at this point in the story, because it sort of accidentally proves the Sword of Logos’s alleged point? Touma had been on a hot streak, convincing wary Swordsmen to join his cause, and generally having all of his claims regarding Megid schemes to be accurate. The momentum had swung in his direction, and it seemed inevitable that we’d be left with only an anxious Rintaro and a deranged Ren to stand in the way of Touma’s ultimate victory over the forces of evil.

Until.

Until, basically, the Sword of Logos was right: Touma collects power too easily, and he doesn’t understand the consequences. He races ahead of Daishinji, he follows unknown dudes, he gets into a quarry fight with Storious that might’ve ended up killing him. Touma’s… he acts rashly, emotionally. He’s a guy that will never stop charging into a fight if he thinks it’ll help someone. But that same recklessness that all the heroes swooned over last episode becomes a critical flaw this time. He’s unlocked a power he can’t control, and it’s made him maybe a bigger threat than the Book Club or the SoL traitor combined.

Which, dark, but: PRIMITIVE DRAGON. I love it? I love it. Everything about it is awesome. I love how the normal jingles and voice-overs are dropped, so it’s just Touma’s animalistic grunting, echoed out and magnified. I love how he grips the sword wrong on his Henshin, trading precision and artistry for power and unpredictability. I love how his body language is feral, barely restrained. I love how the flames of the new helmet’s jaw become fangs. I love the giant claw, how it has Touma’s power and heroism and very identity in its terrifying grip. I love how the chest plate mimics that, to broadcast that this is the Primitive Dragon’s story now, not Touma’s. I love the way Saber’s fighting posture changes into a squat, with leaps and claw strikes and the sword swung as a random object. I love how the music isn’t sweeping, fairytale orchestral performances, but aggressive and electronic, a separation from the show’s aesthetic.

I just… I love Primitive Dragon. I love it so much.

The rest of the episode was fun and solid, even if the middle third leaned real heavy on Pay Attention You Will Be Asked About This Later stuff. (Master Logos! The unnamed assistant! Why Storious was let into the vault!) It’s intriguing, but I’m not the viewer who’s going to try and connect a variety of dots. That’s not where my passion is with these shows.

It’s with Primitive Dragon.

—

UNCORRECTED PROOFS



They’d managed to elude the Sword of Logos guards, Touma was pretty sure. He and Daishinji had infiltrated the base effectively, but then a general alarm had almost gotten them caught. Luckily, he and Daishinji had managed to duck down a side corridor – of which this base seemed to have a few hundred – and catch their breath before completing their mission.

They might only have a few minutes, and after that… well, Touma wasn’t sure what could go wrong. He might be imprisoned by the Sword of Logos. He might be killed. This might be all he had left, this time with Daishinji. He had to say something.

“Daishinji,” he said, as quietly as possible, “there’s something I need to talk to you about.”

The stoic swordsman turned from his observation of the hallway to face Touma. Daishinji whispered, “Now?” He seemed surprised, and a little concerned. Daishinji wasn’t one for casual conversation, and this was the least casual setting for a conversation that Touma could imagine. Still, this was important.

“Yeah.” Touma leaned closer to Daishinji, to try and keep their conversation from getting them found by the roaming guards.

Daishinji’s eyes darted from side to side, but eventually they came to rest on Touma’s face. “Okay, but quickly.”

“Mei showed me that story you wrote about Yuri.”

Daishinji’s eyes grew wide. “WHAT?!” Touma immediately clapped his hand over Daishinji’s mouth, and shushed him to be quiet. After a moment, Touma removed his hand, and Daishinji continued in a rushed whisper, “Wh– why? Why would she do th–”

Touma stopped him with a raised hand, and shook his head once. “I know, I know. I’d feel the exact same way. I never want someone to see my early drafts. It’s just about getting things down on paper, and yet people act like it should be random drops of perfection, just waiting to be rearranged. They don’t get it. But she’s a good editor, and I think she just wanted me to give you a hand with it.”

Daishinji’s mouth hung open. He clearly felt vulnerable, exposed. Touma needed to reassure him.

“I thought it was solid, for an early draft. There’s some really erotic imagery, and some incredibly detailed passages. There’re a few tics you’ve got that need to be addressed – you use the word ‘taut’ a lot, and I feel like there are a few synonyms like ‘rigid’ that could freshen things up – but I think there’s some real passion on the page, which is the most important thing. Definitely a lot for us to work with as we polish it up.”

Daishinji’s eyes were twitching, probably out of gratitude. “‘Us’? ‘We’?”

Touma smiled warmly. “Of course, buddy. Once we get out of here, you and I are going to pound that raw material into shape, and shine it to brilliance. Get it? Like a sword!”

“Yes,” Daishinji agreed with a curious lack of enthusiasm, “when we get out of here. Which I definitely want to do now. I want to live to do that. So badly.”

[Mmicb0b]

ok it's been 22 episodes of mediocrity(or it was too me glad you liked 16-22) you are now at the point where Saber gets good

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmicb0b

ok it's been 22 episodes of mediocrity(or it was too me glad you liked 16-22) you are now at the point where Saber gets good

I liked chunks of the previous episodes, so this wasn't like night-and-day, but it's a VERY promising new development.

[Enchilada645]

Okay so like... let me say this to start!

Putotyra is probably my favorite berserk form in the franchise? Purely for how long it lasts, and even while in some control, the negative effects it ends up having on Eiji regardless. There's something about the primal more animal styled Berserk Forms that are a treat to see. And we rarely see them. I mean there was Fang Joker but I rarely count that as a Berserk Form given how quickly it gets fixed.

Putotyra was the peak for me. Even Build Hazard couldn't touch it despite its well directed episodes, and Metal Cluster Hopper was far far at the bottom away from those two.

The magazine scans for Primitive came out and I was honestly very annoyed. I did not like Metal Cluster in the slightest so I wasn't going to enjoy this. My past self was wrong...

In comes Primitive Dragon, in which it takes everything I love about Putotyra and cranks it up to eleven. You can tell the suit actor had a lot of fun with his performances in this suit. There's just a very big ferocity and genuinely creepy nature.

One part I'd like to point to I adored was Storious and Legeiel backing away and Storious swings energy at Primitive Dragon like I'm throwing a house shoe at a roach and proceeds to back away in fear as the critter just scurries towards us because that did not work in the slightest!

Such a good form... and honestly, both Primitive Dragon and Putotyra are like... very much trying to battle it out for 1st for me. I definitely feel like they finally hit something real good after a bunch of tries tbh.

There's also just some other fun stuff here, Ogami being all angry and barking at Touma while also "dropping" what Touma needs to get to where he needs to go. Touma's reckless abandon actually being very detrimental to everything at the moment. It's a good way to show that while our hero has good and admirable traits, they're not always best used in every situation.

Honestly a good/bad episode to leave off on as we enter the Tuesday break. Good because it's a very strong episode thanks to Primitive Dragon, and bad because I'm sure you want more. Thankfully you aren't like us who had to wait weeks for more of this good stuff.

Also that story... I don't know what made you decide to do a sequel to last night's story but I enjoyed it greatly. There's just something so very innocent about Touma thinking Daishinji is trying to write a story when it's just Daishinji being very, very, very damn (and erotically I might add) passionate about a legendary sword. It's great. I'm glad you've gotten a pretty good handle of the characters to be able to do short skits like these.

===Zero Presents: Desast Walk===

Desast Walk #5:

"Hello, humans.

I'm Dessert.

I don't know why you humans keep building cities out of concrete.

If you're confined to a small space, you'll never get the wind, the sound, the smell of the earth, or anything else interesting.

Well, that's not my problem."

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

There's also just some other fun stuff here, Ogami being all angry and barking at Touma while also "dropping" what Touma needs to get to where he needs to go.

Ha ha, yeah, that was great. Ogami very theatrically going I AM A SWORDSMAN WHO IS LOYAL TO THE SWORD OF LOGOS! I WOULD NEVER GIVE YOU THIS BOOK GATE, WHICH I AM LEAVING BEHIND AS I WALK AWAY! Perfect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

There's just something so very innocent about Touma thinking Daishinji is trying to write a story when it's just Daishinji being very, very, very damn (and erotically I might add) passionate about a legendary sword.

Thanks! I've held off on doing a Touma POV for a while, 'cause I just... I kinda couldn't get into his head enough? And then I was thinking about Touma getting looped into this Slash Fic subplot, and I thought, yes. Touma would be THRILLED if any of his friends tried to write something, and he would immediately throw his weight behind helping them finish it. He also would completely not get how co-writing an erotic short story about a teammate would make Daishinji want to get murdered. I'm glad it worked for you!