[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER SABER EPISODE 33 - “EVEN SO, THE FUTURE CAN BE CHANGED”

As soon as I saw him grumpily eating convenience store ramen under a bridge, those old Kabuto neurons started firing again. And then here’s Desast to make that compelling Come Be A Scumbag With Me pitch, and I’m over the moon. It’s an incredibly fun space for this show to play in, that chaotic dirtbag zone. We’ve got determined heroes, and apocalyptic villains (two sets!), and a tortured antihero, but Ren and Desast fill this intriguing role for the show as guys outside the Optimism/Pessimism divide. Their story is about feeling unfulfilled in a workplace, but unmotivated to determine what would actually make them happy. They don’t lack skill, they lack drive. They love the work, but they don’t know how to turn that into a career. They’re waiting to find something worth believing in, and they’re going to be a giant pain in the ass until they do.

At first it just feels that despite Ren being a social darwinist it seems that he only acknowledges certain people he admires like Kento, while he'd be envious of other strong people like Touma and for here, perhaps both Shindai siblings and obviously Desast. Actually it seems that even people like Ren has some standards in how he's annoyed by the Shindai sibilings behavior which he labels as always fishy. Kenzan and Sabela's fight happens here where Sabela still also displays her dominatrix-esque trait by stepping on Kenzan like she did on Slash. Despite Ren's brattiness, he can feel as if he's the stronger one in his debut, but that can be like the series showing off new Rider, but is it proven here when he holds his own better against Sabela than Buster and Slash or that Sabela is also 'nerfed' from her debut? Though obviously the one that can actually overwhelm Sabela is upgraded Blades.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It’s a little sad to see that, amongst so many huge improvements from the first batch of episodes (Ren!!!), this show still randomly drops huge details in a relative void, like it’s all some big stew of plot details. There’s no slick puzzling out of key information, it’s just maddeningly abrupt declarations like Sophia Is A Hologram Clone Created To Mimic Luna. It’d be an absurd yet tantalizing detail if Touma discovered it through episodes of hard work; here, it’s that Saber standby of characters revealing insane elements of the series arc like they’re recapping the previous episode, and I still dislike it intensely. There’s barely any reason for Kento or Master Logos to talk about it right this second, beyond giving context for viewers, and it’s that sort of expository clunkiness that would always take me out of generally-excellent emotional scenes from earlier in the run. It’s no different here, and that’s a bummer.

Kinda hilarious that my previously mentioned suggested twist (as you didn't reach that stage yet) about Sophia may be the Luna in present day ends up partially true here where Sophia is created as a Luna clone, of which it means technically she's not as old as her actress as she's created after Luna (who is most likely on Touma and Kento's age range), despite that her actress is on iirc Ogami and Daishinji's age range. I guess it may be true that Master Logos only merely provide some context for viewers, as his target is still Luna, instead of making use of an existing one in Sophia here which'd mean that information is more important that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Because, otherwise, good scene! I like that Touma – just like with Rintaro – cannot ever close the deal on reuniting friendships because he always rushes the resolution. Kento’s coming around after a picnic reconciliation, but then Touma’s like STOP BEING LONELY AND BROODING AND FIGHT WITH ME and Kento remembers why he’s keeping this guy at arm’s length. It’s incredibly funny to me that Touma still doesn’t know how to separate work and friendship. Maybe Rintaro’s been a bad influence on him?

Seems that this is how the idealistic main protagonists often solve conflicts tbh, which is probably one of the reasons why what they do isn't convincing and that they're just favored by the stories. Though obviously here Touma failed to get Kento back. The only reason that Kento stays is that he's hungry. Though Kento has seen real proof of the future changing that the events aren't what he saw, and his rejection is also symbolized by Touma finding Mei's pin of him in the ground being left. I'd be interested if there'd be more people who talks in the same way as like Tezuka in Ryuki or Yuuji in Faiz, in main protagonist role. Actually, in Ex-Aid, in contrast to his tactics as Genius Gamer M, didn't really like that post-redemption Parado also only talks like this to Graphite to try convincing him to help him, success or no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The Master Logos stuff was also really good. I dig the way he’s all about psychologically torturing his foes to keep them off-balance. He’s not only having a blast telling Kento and Touma how fun it was to destroy their childhoods, he’s using that information tactically. He’s making it personal for them (even This Isn’t Personal Kento completely loses his shit), and while it’s great as a little team-up moment for fans, it also renders both Saber and Calibur less effective in battle. Pretty much a win/win for Master Logos!

So, I wonder if you'd think he fills the needed place of the more engaging main antagonist, compared to the Book Club (of which yeah I think there's almost nothing to Legeiel or Zooous, with them only getting more of them in their death, though Zooous gives many reaction from Rintaro). It's also a crazy feat that he manages to fight both Riders while staying in his seemingly human form. And while Saber is a more lighthearted series, there's a villain who is on the running on one of the most depraved here, who is the one running the good guy faction, in Master Logos' pure sadism and pettiness by, yeah Kamijo was proven true that he corrupted Kurayami to trick Hayato into sacrificing Luna.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Fanfiction is good. You haven't thought about Ogami in a while, almost since he joined Touma's team.

Thanks! He's a fun character to think about, since he's not as high-minded in his actions as a lot of the other characters... but since he's not as high-minded, it makes him a little more difficult to really crack open. He's-- Ogami's a very straight-forward dude, which is awesome for a TV ensemble, but makes me draw a blank most times when I go to write.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Another weird setting choice is the duel between Saber and Saikou. They're having a fight in full view of all the cars driving by. Couldn't they have picked somewhere more private?

Brooding Roof was booked for a wedding!

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Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

Ren and Dezast teaming up is the impetus I needed to care a lot more about both of these dorks, bumming around in search of focus and someone to fight.

It's the best decision this show could've made.

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I've established how much I love the current Touma/Kento drama already, so having one of my other de facto top-three Saber characters get looped into that in such a thoughtful way just made me that much happier.

It's a real cool finale, with all four swordsmen trying to work out their complicated dynamic. Can't complain about it, emotionally!

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Oh, and also, I'm going to go ahead and push back a little on your criticisms of Ryouga's role here, Die.

So, I hope I didn't make it sound unexpected or unprecedented -- this is a guy who's an established antagonist with a remit to punish wayward swordsmen; this isn't Kamen Rider Rey showing up to challenge Rintaro for Best Snow-Themed Furry Kamen Rider -- so much as I found it unnecessary and uncharacteristic.

The big problem I have is that I don't know why Ryoga's fighting Rintaro right this minute. When he leaves Master Logos, the order has been given to target Touma, and ignore the other swordsmen. If Ryoga's furious at the suggestion that he's unequal to the task, and that he needs to prove himself over a psychopath like Falchion, why not go with Reika, who is actually following Touma and sees Falchion first? Why go fight some random dude, in a random place, for no real reward? Why disobey Master Logos -- which feels very out of character at this point in the show -- to go pick some pointless fight? None of it really made any sense to me. Sorry if this is a sore spot!

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

So, I wonder if you'd think he fills the needed place of the more engaging main antagonist, compared to the Book Club (of which yeah I think there's almost nothing to Legeiel or Zooous, with them only getting more of them in their death, though Zooous gives many reaction from Rintaro).

Ha ha, YES. YES, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. Master Logos is exactly the sort of late-stage adversary this show needed, and all of his scenes so far have been a delight. He's maybe the first non-Kento villain I've really looked forward to seeing?

[Fish Sandwich]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The big problem I have is that I don't know why Ryoga's fighting Rintaro right this minute. When he leaves Master Logos, the order has been given to target Touma, and ignore the other swordsmen. If Ryoga's furious at the suggestion that he's unequal to the task, and that he needs to prove himself over a psychopath like Falchion, why not go with Reika, who is actually following Touma and sees Falchion first? Why go fight some random dude, in a random place, for no real reward? Why disobey Master Logos -- which feels very out of character at this point in the show -- to go pick some pointless fight? None of it really made any sense to me. Sorry if this is a sore spot!

No such order was given, to my knowledge? Reika and Ryouga are indeed told to stick to watching Touma because of Luna's sudden appearance, but Falchion is let loose to fight all the swordsmen, because Master Logos wants all their stuff eventually (so there's your reward), and Ryouga wants to prove he can do that better than some crazy old dude, while also taking the opportunity to test his mettle once again against the recently powered-up guy who just won against his beloved sister in the previous episode (so the choice of dude isn't random either). Ryouga lays this much out explicitly in his dialogue. It's bordering on disobeying orders, without totally crossing that line, so much like I believe we've seen Reika a bit worried about Master Logos by this point, you can see the two of them starting to chafe under the leadership a bit, despite being more loyal to the man in that position than anyone. As for the "in a random place" bit? I mean, yeah, probably a fair complaint! Bit of a classic tokusatsu shortcut sorta deal right there, with the "Ren was here earlier" justification being rather flimsy, but I just don't know if that one thing is enough to sink all the other logic behind the writing here? It checks out well enough as far as I can see.

[AkibaSilver]

Oh because here's a good a time as any, time to comment on Durendal's suit, because I forgot to do that earlier, and I think I've done literally every other one at this point. It sure it something. It's grown on me over time, and seeing clearer imags of it not surrounded by Saber-CGI means I can actually pick out the details, like the chest being a whale mouth, although I still find the multi-prong visor a little strange. I like the design of the time-sword too, especially in how it pulls the Wizard AxeCalibur trick of "Hold it by the blade to use it as another weapon", but that gets us into the increasing weirdness of it obviously being designed as a toy yet that toy came out several months later through Premium Bandai, such is the state of the franchise etc etc.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

but Falchion is let loose to fight all the swordsmen, because Master Logos wants all their stuff eventually (so there's your reward)

But Reika and Ryoga don't know that yet? A lot of stuff that follows on is real straightforward We Need To Have Characters Learn Things For Later stuff, and that's why all this is here, but I feel like this plot could've used at least one scene of dialogue to explain why Ryoga doesn't go with Reika. (It feels like she's the one who'd be more apt to slightly disobey orders in an attempt to impress someone?) And, why not just have Ryoga show up at the initial multi-person fight along the highway? I don't know, I get that it all seems clear and intentional to you, and I absolutely appreciate the response, but it still feels flimsy to me.

Also, I'm not even mad about Ryoga appearing out of a floorboard to challenge Rintaro, because that is Day 1 Kamen Rider transportation. (I mean, I've seen Wizard!) That's a more aesthetically-appropriate way of getting around than a motorcycle!

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

It sure it something.

It is! I like the visor. I don't understand anything that's going on with his torso (Lunar cycles? Tide charts? Submarine targeting? Emoji???) but I like that, too.

[AkibaSilver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It is! I like the visor. I don't understand anything that's going on with his torso (Lunar cycles? Tide charts? Submarine targeting? Emoji???) but I like that, too.

If only you'd read the Ocean History book, I'm sure it would make perfect sense for you. Get on the oceanographer's level.

I think (??) it's a mix of "sonar pings" pluswhat looks like a sundial/compass, shaped to look like a mouth bcause the chestplate as a whole is a whale, then you have another blue circle because... reasons...? As undersea Riders go, he's not quite Poseidon, but I'd but him about equal with Abyss. OOO ShaUTa is somewhere in there too.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

As undersea Riders go, he's not quite Poseidon, but I'd but him about equal with Abyss. OOO ShaUTa is somewhere in there too.

I anxiously await the debut of Gatriski, the Sword of Logos jet-ski, to really complete the package.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Also, I'm like one minute into Episode 35, and Luna is abducted literally the first time Touma turns his back. Like, the very second he turns to go yell at Kento, Luna is abducted. JESUS! This guy's luck! Reika's a great smoky ninja and all, but Touma's gotta feel like the narrative is explicitly against him fulfilling his promise. There's bad luck, and then there's Touma Questing For Luna...

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER SABER EPISODE 35 - “ON THAT VERY DAY, I BECAME GOD”



Boy, that was some amount of plot! It’s an episode crammed with incident, but all in service of resetting the table. Everyone shows up to Promise Park for a swordfight, Master Logos wins, but then Touma wins, but then Master Logos still maybe wins, but then it’s all probably setting up Storious doing his own version of this scheme, but then Luna’s gone anyway. There’s a massive reestablishment of the status quo here (everyone gets their swords and books back), and it made me feel justified in not really caring about the arc-plot stuff in this episode.

But this is an episode where Touma’s hope becomes a literal bridge to reunite him with Luna, and that’s basically all I care about.

(Well, that and how pained Touma must’ve been to wake up in the recuperation room in a hoodie. Couldn’t they have found him a nice billowy nightgown? Or at least a nightcap? Touma almost died, people!)

This whole episode is about how much power Touma derives from his hope, and how seeing that hope rewarded, even briefly, allows him to weather more/the same hardship. He’s just dead set on rescuing Luna, no matter how absurdly stacked against him the odds are. (And yet he chides the de-sworded swordsmen for going to the park! A little hypocritical, Touma!) There’s no real plan, no real strategy. Even when Master Logos’s maneuvering drops a new/old book out of the sky, and it should be viewed at least a little skeptically, Touma slaps that thing into his belt and swings for the fences. There’s nothing but hope, and he makes it work.

It’s an episode that doesn’t exactly rely on exceptional plotting (folks just show up and get their swords ganked) or on memorable speeches (it’s a real TOUMA! and LUNA! episode of dialogue), but weirdly nails the little moments. Those shots of Touma and Luna existing in the same space. The way Touma keeps putting himself below Luna’s sightline. Kento’s nostalgic reframing of the trio as children again, the last time it all made sense. Even Touma sitting cross-legged in front of Luna and joking/admitting that getting her back has kind of been a giant pain in the ass. All those little beats sell Touma’s struggle and achievement in a way that’ll probably stick with me long after I’ve forgotten how inconsequential the rest of this episode felt.

Like, that shot up there. It’s worth an entire episode of weird arc-plot crap, easy. Real winner of a shot.

—

IF YOU’RE NOT DARK



Calibur, or Espada?

Touma had won, impossibly, yet again. Luna was saved. The apocalypse was averted. Master Logos was thwarted. Kento could put down his burden, at last. He could go back home with his friends. They’d forgive him, in time. Their swords were back, good as new. He could atone, surely. If he picked up that golden sword, if he returned to service as Espada, he could make it right again. He could be happy.

Except.

Except, what if this was yet another lull in the storm? What if this was where it all went wrong again, when he let down his guard? He’d lived any number of futures where he thought the worst was avoided, only to have it strike when his guard was down. He’d felt the pull of Touma’s optimism the last few days, let the power of that hope steer him towards teamwork. And it had been nice, to see his friends smile a little bit in his presence. But Kento knew where that path led, and he wouldn’t let himself be swayed. If he hesitated now, if he hoped for the best, he might be dooming the world.

He had to brush that hope aside. He had to cling to the certainty of fear. He knew what would happen if he let himself be swayed by Touma’s ideals, and he needed to be strong enough to overcome them.

He grasped the hilt of the Sword of Darkness, pulled it from the ground, and left all hope behind.

[Enchilada645]

So this episode birthed a legendary meme. Because... with a shot like this:



Why wouldn't it?

That being said the heart was there for the latter half of it, and honestly I adore it as much as I laugh at the prelude to it. Even Touma's actor has joked about the scene as well, so that's always a delight.

I think what I liked most about this episode is Master Logos' big plan of, "I'm going to sit in this park and just let everyone come to me". Like... it works! In the span of like five minutes we get 5+ Swordsmen all in the same place with most of them defeated about a minute or two after they arrive.

There's a real chaotic feel to how the whole episode went and I honestly enjoyed it. Also there's just some small reactionary moments, like Desast being like "Hey buddy, you did it" to Ren after Hayate comes flying back to him.

There's also that small moment of Kento reaching for Ikazuchi only to pick Kurayami again. Like... we're so close! But Kento still needs time clearly.

And judging by your story... yep! Very much a similar train of thought when it came to delving into Kento's mind. Dude is like "Damn, I can't believe that happened" but his pure pessimism is what really gets him to choose Kurayami again despite what Touma managed to do. Really nice to see you get into Kento's headspace.

===Zero Presents: Desast Walk===

Desast Walk #14:

"Hello, humans.

I'm Dessert.

There are times when everything goes wrong and you feel depressed.
You know what you should do?

You need to be strong.
If you're stronger than everyone else, you won't have to worry about it.

Right?"