[Deepsea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

I'd like to imagine it's partially the result of not liking Revice that's pushing people to be like this over Geats.

Probably like how Saber was like that for people when they were watching Revice and them wanting Revice to be "better than Saber" got burned when it wouldn't live up to their heightened expectations.

This is proof I need to watch Revice. I liked Saber and like Geats, but never watched Revice, so seems like a good idea.

[Mesnick]

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Originally Posted by Fredbob392

Same. Like I don't think Geats sucks, but I don't think it's anything special either. It's got a lot of genuinely surprising plot twists, but not much depth beyond that.

Absolutely agree.

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Originally Posted by Fredbob392

Hikaru aside, every character in Revice is so fun and engaging, while none of the recurring characters in Geats do anything other than shout their catchphrase once a scene and then fight each other.

Geats is just a story-driven show and the characters in it are servants of the story, not its creators. This is especially noticeable in Keiwa, but others are not without it. So in a brief retelling with Geats, everything is gorgeous, but when you look, you just want to shout: "People, I don't believe you!" Overall, I think if Revice's soulfulness and deep characters were combined with Geats' thoughtful plot and original innovation, it would be a great show. Although a very average crossover denies this idea.

Quote:

And that's not even getting into Takashai's usual treatment of female characters after Revice was the first Rider season after 50 years to actually have more than just a single major female Rider

At this point, Geats fans will object that it has more female riders. Although Retta is very difficult to consider as such, Beroba is just a CGI kaijin (or even kaiju) with a belt.

[Annuga]

Honestly as an outsider on the whole Revice stuff it seems to be that Vice is just very divisive, all I really remember is people praising it early on and criticizing it for a weird antivax arc, being weird with Daiji cause the writers admitted they didn't really plan his endgame and retconning Vice.

[Sh Ranger]

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Originally Posted by DreamSword

The song I chose to represent Revice in my Rider Playlist is "Lost Memories" by AEROHEAD.

Weird how you chose a song with a name similar to Touma's bestseller to represent Revice. Although, I can see why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

As for Giff, although I consider him a very dull and inactive villain, most of the negativity towards him is related to:
a) With the freshness of the show, and, accordingly, disappointments;
b) With the fact that the audience pulled on him a concept that was never announced in the show, and were very upset when it did not come true.

I mean, Gif didn't even talk until the final arc and he didn't express any other way, so concepts were all we had. Probably anything he said would've sounded ridiculous at that point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredbob392

And that's not even getting into Takashai's usual treatment of female characters after Revice was the first Rider season after 50 years to actually have more than just a single major female Rider

Personally, I would argue that Kinoshita's treatment of female characters was way worse than anything Takahashi has done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Geats is a lot like Gaim for me. I think it's a good show, but I'm not seeing what everyone else has gotten so hyped up over.

I agree that Gaim seems pretty overrated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

I'd like to imagine it's partially the result of not liking Revice that's pushing people to be like this over Geats.

Sounds about right. Like, the longer you go without eating a good meal, the better it will taste. I'm sure people will judge Geats more accurately after it's done airing.

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Originally Posted by Annuga

Vice is just very divisive

I see what you did there.

[Fredbob392]

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Personally, I would argue that Kinoshita's treatment of female characters was way worse than anything Takahashi has done.

Very curious to see the explanation of that hot take. Like Sakura and Hana were practically the main characters of the show for a while, and Mrs Igarashi was the first time a mom and the topic of motherhood played a major role all throughout the season since like Kuuga. Sure Geats has plenty of female Riders, but literally never more than two at a time. Sae aside, I think they've all been written pretty poorly. Letter/Retta's wish being to lose weight and marry a cute guy Lopo getting written off after five episodes and never coming back while annoying one-note character Nadge-Sparrow comes back as a main cast member just a couple episodes after being eliminated just to stand in the background and sneer occasionally. Neon not even getting to deliver her own Reason To Fight Speach after her dramatic backstory reveal, it instead being given by her Stalker with a crush who justifies mocking and insulting her with having been anxious. And Tsumuri being a combination of Poppy and Izu, although that's more of a personal opinion on Takahashi's writing feeling repetitive

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

As for Giff, although I consider him a very dull and inactive villain, most of the negativity towards him is related to:
a) With the freshness of the show, and, accordingly, disappointments;
b) With the fact that the audience pulled on him a concept that was never announced in the show, and were very upset when it did not come true.

Stuff like that is why, whenever I experience a story, I try to meet at its own level and enjoy it for what it is and what it's trying to do, rather than what I personally want it to be. I'm not always successful, but it's the primary philosophy I try to have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredbob392

Hikaru aside, every character in Revice is so fun and engaging

While he's not exactly deep, I did enjoy the small arc Hikaru had about understanding that sometimes parents do harsh things for their child's' own good. I know it's a very debatable life lesson to have, but it did turn him from a literal background character into one with some prominence, so I enjoyed it.

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Originally Posted by Deepsea

This is proof I need to watch Revice. I liked Saber and like Geats, but never watched Revice, so seems like a good idea.

You absolutely should watch Revice and form your own view on it. Even if you end up not liking it, atleast you'll be able to see for yourself if it has merit or not.

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Originally Posted by Annuga

Honestly as an outsider on the whole Revice stuff it seems to be that Vice is just very divisive, all I really remember is people praising it early on and criticizing it for a weird antivax arc, being weird with Daiji cause the writers admitted they didn't really plan his endgame and retconning Vice.

What's funny is that the antivax thing isn't even an arc, it's literally just a minor plot detail that gets brought up all of twice, and only very late in the show's' run too. Even then, you can easily interpret it as the corruption of vaccines, rather than vaccines in and of themselves being bad.

Even if the way Daiji's' arc went wasn't how it was originally planned, it definitely turned out all the better for it. Not all rewrites are bad!

I'd argue that Vice was never retconned. His intentions are pretty clearcut from the getgo, especially if you read the LINE messages.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Weird how you chose a song with a name similar to Touma's bestseller to represent Revice. Although, I can see why.

Having not seen Saber yet, I actually didn't even know that. Funny coincidence.

[Annuga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

What's funny is that the antivax thing isn't even an arc, it's literally just a minor plot detail that gets brought up all of twice, and only very late in the show's' run too. Even then, you can easily interpret it as the corruption of vaccines, rather than vaccines in and of themselves being bad.

Even if the way Daiji's' arc went wasn't how it was originally planned, it definitely turned out all the better for it. Not all rewrites are bad!

I'd argue that Vice was never retconned. His intentions are pretty clearcut from the getgo, especially if you read the LINE messages.

I mean, still weird to see in a show.

Yeah no that's certainly true, just, most people seemed really unsatisfied from what I saw.

Could you elaborate on this? My understand is that Vice tried to eat Ikki's mother in episode 1 and a lot later, Vice was revealed to never be able to do that cause of a deal he made with Ikki as a child or something. The term retcon gets thrown left and right these days because people are illiterate so I wouldn't mind seeing how this wasn't actually the case

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

My understand is that Vice tried to eat Ikki's mother in episode 1 and a lot later, Vice was revealed to never be able to do that cause of a deal he made with Ikki as a child or something. The term retcon gets thrown left and right these days because people are illiterate so I wouldn't mind seeing how this wasn't actually the case

It seems to be explained as a joke. Considering that Vice did not show a desire to eat other people, but joked all the time, quite in the nature of the character. But even if not, the script of the show changes during filming and Revice is not the first or the last to change what was stated in the first episode. The same Geats also very quickly stopped flirting with girls.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredbob392

Very curious to see the explanation of that hot take. Like Sakura and Hana were practically the main characters of the show for a while, and Mrs Igarashi was the first time a mom and the topic of motherhood played a major role all throughout the season since like Kuuga.

More focus =/= better, though. The content is important. I would rather a character have one good scene than ten bad scenes. For example, I thought Sakura was pretentious with her claims of invincibility while running away from spooky basements and I found her "solution" to Aguilera's problem offensive.

Yukimi was good, for sure. She was the one holding the Igarashis together. However, the producer apparently had to veto Kinoshita's plan to kill her while she was in hospital, so I don't think Kinoshita should get credit here. Regarding motherhood, I'd say this was a big deal in Kiva, with Maya being an important character in both 1986 and 2008 sides.

Akemi was the worst case, that I imagine most people will agree with. She was introduced as a cool character who can fight, but then she got turned in to an obedient Gif Devil and killed just so Daiji could yell, "Look what you guys made Gif do!" Her plan to get Gif's cells failed and she died having accomplished nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredbob392

Sure Geats has plenty of female Riders, but literally never more than two at a time. Sae aside, I think they've all been written pretty poorly. Letter/Retta's wish being to lose weight and marry a cute guy

Letter's desire was superficial, but so was her will to fight for it. Seems like a deliberate example of how weak-willed Riders are the first to fall. She just happened to be a girl.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredbob392

Lopo getting written off after five episodes and never coming back while annoying one-note character Nadge-Sparrow comes back as a main cast member just a couple episodes after being eliminated just to stand in the background and sneer occasionally.

The good news is that Sae looks like she'll be returning in the movie!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredbob392

Neon not even getting to deliver her own Reason To Fight Speach after her dramatic backstory reveal, it instead being given by her Stalker with a crush who justifies mocking and insulting her with having been anxious.

I don't think Kyuun's speech justifies his previous behavior. Rather, it acknowledges that his behavior was bad and shows that he's making a sincere attempt to improve for Neon's sake. The future Na-Go fans had turned their backs on Neon for being "fake", so she needed somebody to show support and remind her that she wasn't alone, regardless of the fact that it was Kyuun. Her BeatBoost debut was pretty great as well!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredbob392

And Tsumuri being a combination of Poppy and Izu, although that's more of a personal opinion on Takahashi's writing feeling repetitive

Yeah, I guess. I'm curious to see how she'll develop though.

I'd also like to mention that some of the female character problems in Takahashi's previous shows might be due to the producer, Ohmori, who notoriously said something to the effect of "Kyoryuger didn't have a yellow ranger since yellow is girly and girls are weak", before making a male yellow Primary Rider six years later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

Having not seen Saber yet, I actually didn't even know that. Funny coincidence.

It's one of my favorite Rider shows. I would strongly recommend it for sure!

[Annuga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

It seems to be explained as a joke. Considering that Vice did not show a desire to eat other people, but joked all the time, quite in the nature of the character. But even if not, the script of the show changes during filming and Revice is not the first or the last to change what was stated in the first episode. The same Geats also very quickly stopped flirting with girls.

I don't like that explanation. Geats being a showy character in general who loves bathing in the spotlight doesn't contradict how he'd flirt with women, but trying to eat someone whonyou are contractually obligated to protect and thus would never actually harm is contradictory. I get things change on the writing board for a variety of reasons with Revice needing to change it's entire premise due to covid still being a major thing to this day but it won't make it any less weird to me