[Sunred]

First thing I thought when I saw those two put on the eyemasks were Ninja Turtles.
Obviously, the colors are a nod to Luna Trigger, which was a nice touch.

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunred

First thing I thought when I saw those two put on the eyemasks were Ninja Turtles.

Okay, I'm glad it wasn't just me.

[Sunred]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

Okay, I'm glad it wasn't just me.

Hell yes.

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER W EPISODE 24 - “L ON THE LIPS - YOU’RE THE LIAR”



Pretty fun episode about the ways love warps our perception; also, an episode that is just insane to try and describe scene by scene.

Like, trying to talk about the thematic stuff… I don’t know, why? I appreciate that it’s there, and it completely helps make the Saeko/Doctor Slenderman (I forgot his name) stuff feel like it belongs within a hundred miles of this episode, but I can’t pretend it’s what anyone’s going to remember from this one. So, lemme quickly dispense with it, so we can talk about the high volume of batshit sequences in this episode of fanatic obsession and misunderstood attraction.

It’s nice that this one can end with the realization that Jimmy and Yukiho aren’t in a parasocial relationship, they’re in a burgeoning love story. It’s a testament to how we lie to ourselves to avoid putting ourselves out there, and mistake our own desires for something else. That, along with the Liar Dopant’s crush on Wakana, and Doctor Slenderman’s whole Maybe Inappropriate For Kids medical examination of Saeko’s Maybe Inappropriate For Kids Dopant form, gives us an episode that runs the gamut of love stories: from unrealized puppy love to Basically Second Base.

Okay, now lets talk about the gaudy amount of ridiculous nonsense in this episode, and how it is maybe an early highlight of W’s run.

Like, highlight of the highlights has to be Shotaro chasing after Jimmy on the beach, with voiceover of Shotaro mentioning how weird it is for these two to be chasing one another on a beach at sunset while carrying a white guitar as birds take off. It’s very weird! But it’s the best thing, because it’s all Shotaro trying to tell a deluded try-hard that he knows what it’s like, and to maybe stop leaning into every melodramatic idea in his head. (I love that this is basically Jimmy’s version of Shotaro quitting both his jobs in the Begins Night movie, and Shotaro immediately knows what stupid way he chose to theatrically turn his back on the past, so he knows where Jimmy would be. Amazing.) It’s a charming sequence that leverages Shotaro’s most embarrassing/memorable traits to help a deluded fraud realize that the point of art isn’t fame, it’s expressing what’s in your heart. This is Shotaro telling a guy not to let other people’s perception change your dreams, and it’s as sweet and poignant as it is vaguely regrettable. (Shotaro could maybe stand to dial back some of his cosplay detective stuff!)

Beyond that, we get the iconic climax of Philip dressing up as Wakana, because – as Terui of all people points out – Philip actually cuts a more Wakana silhouette than Akiko does. (Not wrong! Philip’s a great Wakana!) It’s a neat idea, tricking the Liar Dopant, and it just plays into this two-parter’s hard work on crafting a story that’s both clever in the moment, and thoughtful overall. This was a weird story, but one that is remarkably coherent and always kept a sense of stakes. One of my favorite W two-parters! Truly!

—

DIE-A MEMORIES



-The Saeko examination scene… hoo boy. INCREDIBLY horny, at a level where I sort of can’t believe it made it to air. Dude is basically drooling over the Taboo suit – itself pretty goddamn risque! – while he grips and caresses it. Fun twist that his kink is Dopants, but, like… my dude. At least Saeko was also into it?

[Enchilada645]

So something an earlier comment made me realize... the Triceratops two-parter not only gave us Leave All Behind, but also if I'm remembering correctly, our first look at Cyclone Effect Acoustic. Which uh, given what it's paired with in people's minds when it comes to W, feels weird that it was part of a scene where Terui and Triceratops Cop were talking to each other. Leave All Behind's a fun song but it definitely felt out of place in the climax tbh, mostly in that it just did not fit with the action.

Anyway Liar Dopant time, in which we get an absurdly funny but powerful Dopant power if used correctly. The fights it has with Accel and W are fun because he's not really the strongest, but he makes up for that with his abilities.

The guest's this week are rather nice, Jimmy and Yukiho had a real nice story, and because neither were the Dopant, the two ended up having a happier ending than most other guests do on this show.

Like with Movie War 2010 and Accel though, I forgot how this show loves to build up to its next plots sometimes? Weather Dopant Doctor Dude I knew was introduced alongside Accel. But I forgot how they keep him and the Weather memory relatively sparse until this set of episodes. I recognized him instantly when Yukiho goes to him for a standard visit. So I was impressed by them deciding to use an incidental doctor visit that the cast visits to leave the scene open for Saeko to enter. And once she enters it's quickly revealed to us exactly who he is.

That being said I mostly remember these episodes because of the singing contest portions, more specifically Finger on the Trigger. Mostly because the Cover Version that our Kamen Singers perform was never actually released during W's run for some reason. It took us like a decade later to actually get it via a Heisei Rider Music set in 2019. I will also point out that while Androzani hit all the Rider related bases with Ichiro Mizuki, I still want to mention that he is of course the iconic singer for the theme of the classic mecha show Mazinger Z, which is where his "Zeeeet!" tick comes from.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

The guest's this week are rather nice, Jimmy and Yukiho had a real nice story, and because neither were the Dopant, the two ended up having a happier ending than most other guests do on this show.

They do! And I like that the end of Jimmy's story is that he gets a job and falls in love, while maybe still making music at some point in the future maybe question mark. It's different than the typical He Pursues His Dream No Matter What ending that we usually get, which is a nice way of saying that Jimmy's musical ability is so non-existent that maybe it's okay if he just makes music as a hobby.

He's just... he's just astonishingly bad.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Shotaro is genrally overlooked, yeah. I think I'd always say Shotaro is the better detective of the two, because he's not just (basically) plugging terms into a search engine until the result is produced. Shotaro actually has to go out and find clues, as well as understand people well enough to determine what information is most relevant to the search. He only looks like a joke!

And perhaps Shotaro's still better than most of the other main Riders, at least in audience's eyes. Many main Riders can be consistently degraded by audience as naive, idiot, childish, incompetent, out of depth, and other insults due to their compassionate stances, and dismiss anything they do as the story favoring them or plot armor. Shotaro doesn't really get this from the fanbase, though they seem to not differentiate Shotaro and Philip much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER W EPISODE 23 - “L ON THE LIPS - SINGER-SONG RIDER”

There’s just something more appealing to me about watching Shotaro and the rest of the gang have to solve some low-stakes mystery, with an obsessed fan, a deluded performer, several Celebrity Guest Judges, and two pissed-off idol singers. It speaks to the community of Fuuto more than any rampaging psychopath, because it’s about the interconnectedness of every random citizen, and how their hopes and dreams change the fortunes of each other. Some lunatic with a vendetta (hero or villain!) creates a set of stakes that are simple to parse, and direct to confront: a villain needs to be stopped or more people will die. A mystery like this one… it’s not the end of the world if Team Double bails on it. The Liar Dopant’s a problem, but more in the scammer sense of things. No one’s died yet, or is likely to. But the pursuit of truth and justice becomes more intriguing for how optional it is here. Team Double throwing itself into a story where maybe four people are going to live slightly better lives, and that’s it… I don’t know, I really like that. I like how much harder the story has to work to make those stakes feel worth pursuing.

The foreshadowing about Liar Dopant's true identity, Sachio Sawada giving a caligraphy that mocks Shotaro (as half-boiled) and Akiko (as bankrupt), which means he knows enough about those 2, rather than Yukiho who is fond of Jimmy and gets suspected by Shotaro as the one who made Jimmy win. Yukiho indeed pays the Liar Dopant to make sure Jimmy wins, but Sachio is the Dopant, but Yukiho also begs to spare the Dopant for Jimmy's sake. About the crime, Liar Dopant feels like the Cockroach Dopant back in the Heavens' Tornado 2-parter. This 2-parter does seem to focus just on the specific consequences rather than the crime act, of Jimmy's horrible singing causing pain, but Sachio seems to agree on anything his clients ask as long as they pay him enough, so I can already see the disastrous result of a money grubber who holds power, like what if someone asks him to frame someone as evil by making public believe that, leading for a disliked innocent to be executed for example..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It usually means the story has to get uniquely weird, and boy does this episode deliver on that front. This episode leans into all of its singing cast members, for sometimes tenuous (but always fun) reasons. Multiple songs this time out, and if they aren’t particularly appealing to me, I can definitely appreciate the ridiculousness of The Masked Singers just hopping on stage to test a Philip theory. And SPILK! How can you not love an episode that invents a horrible new form of music, and gives it the dumbest possible name? It’s all batshit ideas this time out, but every single one of them adds detail to a story of delusion and desperation, which is thankfully not lost on Shotaro.

From my experience, I've seen the gag of an artist being destructively bad in animations, but a live-action example in W here is no less wacky (including the shaking effect of the surroundings) compared to those. The guest stars here are related to music TAKUYA, Ichirou Mizuki (the only one with named role as Onuki Ichirota), and the W-B-X singer herself Aya Kamiki. The song performed by Kamen Singers is "Finger on the Trigger", W's insert song. About the Fuuuuuutic Idol show, Wakana watching it (as fellow singer) puts her at odds with her family members who seek W Memory holder. Ryubee thinks she still needs to grow up in contrast to what he thinks for Saeko as being grown woman. Ryubee's the kind of parent who restricts the child's interest if it's against their wants, albeit not really strictly here. I guess despite Saeko's jealousy, Wakana had her own restriction as well like her interests in 'distracting'/'childish' things here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

That’s maybe my favorite touch in this one, how both Shotaro and Akiko immediately see the similarities between Jimmy’s deluded grandiosity and Shotaro’s cosplay detective nonsense. It makes Jimmy into less of a constant joke, by suggesting that Jimmy’s naive bluster is a product of his vulnerability and sensitivity, just with zero self-awareness. (I love when this show lets Shotaro be sort of pathetic!) Like, Jimmy’s never annoying in this, despite how horrendous his music is. He’s sweet in how dumb he is, how blinded by optimism he is. Shotaro’s got that same thing, where his cosplay detective stuff is charming in how ridiculous it is, instead of being aggravating. Setting these two up in one story is such a fun idea.

Yeah it's the reason Jimmy pisses off Shotaro, probably about how he's actually half-boiled despite trying to be hard-boiled. Jimmy is just outright horrible for general people in his field though, while Shotaro does have legitimate competency like here swinging on a chain to kick Liar off, an expert combatant in general as highlighted in Joker. Dunno if it's a case of purely irrational hatred or about how Jimmy makes a big mess without acknowledging it. And true the praise gets into Jimmy's head, he has an inflated ego, to talk down Shotaro before they sing as well. What finally gets through Jimmy's head was the Liar Dopant mocking him as untalented, and even those who like him, Yukiho, also claims Jimmy's so untalented and won't win without his help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Again, I just like these dumb little stories that don’t, like, matter. I don’t know if they’d all the time work (I think you need the stories of killers and death in order to make the series-long stuff land?) but I like getting a couple episodes where the resolution is less about defeating one homicidal adversary, and more about figuring out the best way to improve a stranger’s life. That’s real Kamen Rider storytelling to me.

Well about stories of killers and death, indeed, it's the mantra of "if it bleeds, it leads" which is the reason why murder is the most highlighted crime in stories like detective mystery here, or other violent crimes like war and destruction. This also even applies in real life to have news only focus on negative stories like this to get more coverage, which I think is what fuels the bleak view on humanity and life (this mindset can be the fuel of some well-intentioned extremist villains' actions too). But crime is far from being only limited to murder, and villainy isn't about body count competition. This seems to also make some think a villain is innocent if their crimes don't kill anyone which just, downplays any other action. Stopping murders is also about, improving a stranger's life, so they can lead a fulfilling life and that their loved ones don't lose an important person, and there are many other ways to ruin people's lives other than murder (Shotaro's trigger is making people cry).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

No offense, but I recall from the Hibiki thread that you often criticize CGI monster fight scenes, so part of this seems like more your problem than a fault of the show.

There are maybe several things, constant criticism, which may be are also Die's pet peeves rather than a fault of the show, though ofc, evaluating shows can be something subjective, just that those criticisms tend to be agreed upon by the majority of those who reply here. Otherwise, I too think that CGI is a sore spot for KR as well most of the time, because they aren't the most well-done effects. Albeit, CGI is commonly a mockery in cinematic experiences in people's eyes too, of which I don't know the reason why even if they blend perfectly with the surroundings. I can agree if the CGI reduces the authenticness of the actor's raw performance in fighting and done for safety, but about those that inherently require CGI....

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

About the Fuuuuuutic Idol show, Wakana watching it (as fellow singer) puts her at odds with her family members who seek W Memory holder. Ryubee thinks she still needs to grow up in contrast to what he thinks for Saeko as being grown woman. Ryubee's the kind of parent who restricts the child's interest if it's against their wants, albeit not really strictly here. I guess despite Saeko's jealousy, Wakana had her own restriction as well like her interests in 'distracting'/'childish' things here.

Yeah, it seems like Wakana always got a lot of latitude to be a more carefree girl, since Saeko was around to take care of the family business. Ryubei's always inclined to indulge her, even if he's expecting her to be a little more responsible. As far as rebellions go, I think Rybei's okay with her enjoying a dopey TV singing competition.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER W EPISODE 24 - ?L ON THE LIPS - YOU?RE THE LIAR?

Like, highlight of the highlights has to be Shotaro chasing after Jimmy on the beach, with voiceover of Shotaro mentioning how weird it is for these two to be chasing one another on a beach at sunset while carrying a white guitar as birds take off. It?s very weird! But it?s the best thing, because it?s all Shotaro trying to tell a deluded try-hard that he knows what it?s like, and to maybe stop leaning into every melodramatic idea in his head. (I love that this is basically Jimmy?s version of Shotaro quitting both his jobs in the Begins Night movie, and Shotaro immediately knows what stupid way he chose to theatrically turn his back on the past, so he knows where Jimmy would be. Amazing.) It?s a charming sequence that leverages Shotaro?s most embarrassing/memorable traits to help a deluded fraud realize that the point of art isn?t fame, it?s expressing what?s in your heart. This is Shotaro telling a guy not to let other people?s perception change your dreams, and it?s as sweet and poignant as it is vaguely regrettable. (Shotaro could maybe stand to dial back some of his cosplay detective stuff!)

This scene looks romantic without context, but I guess Shoutarou's concerned that it doesn't look hard-boiled for him to have to pursue Jimmy in such a way, as a hard-boiled person should probably be chased, not chasing. However, Shoutarou just wouldn't be Shoutarou if he stopped enjoying being a detective, so the moral he and Jimmy should probably learn from this is to stop seeking others' approval. Anyway, pretty sure that beach is the same one that Hibiki walks across in Shounen Yo?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

-The Saeko examination scene? hoo boy. INCREDIBLY horny, at a level where I sort of can?t believe it made it to air. Dude is basically drooling over the Taboo suit ? itself pretty goddamn risque! ? while he grips and caresses it. Fun twist that his kink is Dopants, but, like? my dude. At least Saeko was also into it?

Well, Taboo is a nonstandard design, so I also appreciate how she looks more unique compared to the average humanoid kaijin. Sucks to be Kirihiko though, he's only been dead for 6 episodes and Isaka's already managed to get this close to Saeko.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Well, Taboo is a nonstandard design, so I also appreciate how she looks more unique compared to the average humanoid kaijin. Sucks to be Kirihiko though, he's only been dead for 6 episodes and Isaka's already managed to get this close to Saeko.

Saeko does not seem like the type to get broken up over a husband she murdered for being a morally-conflicted turncoat, no. She honestly makes more sense with this new guy!