[DreamSword]

Ugh.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Oh man, this is the moment I've been waiting for. No disrespect to Ankh, Eiji, and everyone else, but this is where the show really begins.

He's so fun!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

(another being the random circle OOO has on his back in every form - a relic of the budget action figure gimmick wherein the circle is a button you press to separate the parts for mix and match purposes)

I never knew that! Neat!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

Ugh.

Sometimes you gotta go through hell to get to heaven!

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 16 - “A CONCLUSION, A GREEED, AND A NEW RIDER”

If it is the end for Tank Top and Girl, it’s a sort of underwhelming conclusion for the two of them. It’s interesting in how their bond is used to showcase both the innate desire of the Greeed for things like love and safety, while still being amplified to an unnatural hunger that threatens the world. But it feels a little light on individual conflict, keeping Mezool and Gamel apart until Gamel gets absorbed into Mezool and then Mezool gets flooded with Medals until she becomes a giant CG amphibian monstrosity. It all happens sort of quickly, and the episode doesn’t make it enough of a focal point for my liking.

I don't know if this'd be a spoiler (this is my first time watching OOO), but this shouldn't be an end for Mezool, as her true desire that I've read somewhere hasn't been revealed yet. OOO's blue combo ShaUTa. should likely come from Mezool, also hasn't appeared yet. Guess it's not only the heroes that wants nothing for themselves like Eiji, Gamel also only wants to take care of his mother figure Mezool, rather like Julio/Tamaki in Revice wanting to take care of Aguilera. Mezool claims to love him, but it still feels that Mezool is also taking advantage of him, rather like the other Greeeds like Uva hunting Mezool before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

For an episode that’s nominally about defining the threat of the Greeed gaining their Core Medals – via a large amphibious monster wrecking an empty park – there’s so much fascinating sadness to the Greeed’s existence that we learn about from Kougami’s exposition. Ankh’s a pissy baby, Uva’s a slimy doofus, Kazari’s a duplicitous prick, Mezool’s an untrustworthy matron, and Gamel’s a blundering child, but they’re all driven by a need to reclaim their Core Medals. There’s a (if you’ll pardon the pun) core deficiency to their lives as Greeed – they’re all missing a part of themselves from birth, and their existence is about trying to reclaim that missing part of themself. Their lives are the rapacious hunger brought about by an unfillable void, and the existential terror that knows how easily they could be reduced to nothingness. (Much like, uh, everyone!) In that light, Kazari and Ankh’s quest to collect Core Medals feels less like world domination than it does the fervent hope that mortality can be held at bay, and maybe some solace can be found in its place.

Though the tragedy does increase the sympathy points for them, it'd still be villainy from them to try to survive as they do it by creating the Yummies to farm for Cell Medals and hurting innocents in the process, they're not only attacking each other to gain the Cores. This'd be like if the Ryuki Riders more actively feed their Contract Monsters to humans (done by the most evil Riders like Ouja), where it's something required so they won't get eaten by their monsters other than killing Mirror Monsters. Other than that, this also shows Kougami's character that, this reminds me of Sougo where he encourages even his foes to fight for their dreams, but Kougami won't ever intervene in someone's actions (where obviously Sougo stops evil-doers), even if it's depraved like Maki's, he'd let others achieve their desires even if they'd commit heinous crimes in the process.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It’s a solid debut for what I remember being one of my favorite characters in Kamen Rider. Birth gets the standard Secondary introduction of absolutely demolishing an enemy with the sort of pyrotechnic display and overwhelming firepower that we will never, ever see again as he struggles to hold off Pseudo-Yummies or that corgi who barked at Ankh or whatever. This is his birthday, so he gets to be the special boy.

With Goto talking to Maki (for a reasonable one this time, to arrest Maki for kidnapping Hina, as Eiji accurately predicted about the truck), and Maki talking about the new Rider system being completed (as usual, the heroes' powers would come from evil, Maki being the creator of them, and he knows it that he can't be arrested or OOO wouldn't get help), it's expected that Goto would be the one wielding Birth, but it's a red herring that, turns out it's Akira Date instead.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

I feel wanting to save the world is a common trait in the franchise, or at least most of the main Riders. The fanbase also seem to view those main Riders as those who wants to save the world (and nothing else, character wise, for some). Maybe saving the world is about defeating something that threatens the entire world (those who can/want destroy the world), and by defeating them, the world won't be destroyed by them, thus is saved.

Yuri also wanted to save the world, which was considered conventional heroism for his time, but by interacting with Touma, he realized that heroism had grown to become saving the people who live in the world, as the people are what make the world worth saving.

As mentioned by Die, saving the world can often be a tricky obsession for Secondary Riders. At worst, they can actually become the problem that the world needs saving from, like Tachibana, Kumon Kaito, Daiji and Keiwa, when their sense of justice becomes warped by what they see as being wrong with the world. It's good to have a vision for a better future, only as long as the present doesn't have to suffer for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER X KAMEN RIDER OOO & W FEAT. SKULL: MOVIE WAR CORE

The Tajador stuff is still criminally undercooked, which you just can?t do with poultry. It?s all sloppy, and I kind of stopped caring why.

I love the part where Tajadol briefly has green eyes before it gets ruined by more red.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 16 - ?A CONCLUSION, A GREEED, AND A NEW RIDER?

A CONCLUSION:
Is this it for Mezool and Gamel? I honestly don?t remember.

Not sure if this is a rhetorical question? I wouldn't want to spoil if you don't want me to answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

A GREEED:
It?s agreeably sad, that aspect of the Greeed. It?s a thing that Eiji can lock onto as a reason to help Ankh ? this isn?t about power, or malice, it?s about someone who wants to feel safe, and needs a hand obtaining that safety. Who could say no to that?

Ankh was literally born from desire, so it's like he doesn't know how to be anything else. It's a good contrast to Eiji, a secretly depressed martyr who doesn't know how to want for more. They need each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

AND A NEW RIDER:
Everything about Birth is so smart, aesthetically. We?re in the Coin-Operated show, so naturally the new Rider is a goddamn Gashapon machine. (That little POP! I love it.) Where OOO runs on Core Medals, Birth churns out his form changes through Cell Medals. Where OOO is about the power of desire as a cornerstone of civilization, Birth is the raw avarice that undergirds the system. OOO is the spirit, Birth is the body. And so on, and so forth.

It's thematically appropriate, but I'll admit I'm not too fond of the suit design. Not that it's bad or anything like that, it's much better than Diend, but not as cool as Accel or Meteor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

He?s great, in just this little bit we see from the end of this episode. (He carries around his instruction manual! I love it.) Very excited to get to talk more about this guy soon!

I like him even more than DreamSword does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

And talking of the new guy, he?s someone else with a prior Toku role.

And a future Tokusatsu role as well, with Iwanaga later becoming the new generation Uchuu Keiji Shaider.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

(for a reasonable one this time, to arrest Maki for kidnapping Hina, as Eiji accurately predicted about the truck)

I didn't have a good place to bring this up, but I really appreciated the show giving a little screentime to Gotou confronting Maki about Hina's kidnapping. While Kougami is typically Do As Though Wilt in regards to his mad scientist's troubling tendency towards felonious kidnapping, Gotou recognizes this as a bridge too far, even if he quickly gets led astray again by the temptation of the Birth Driver. (It's also gotta be especially galling for Gotou, since he was the one who personally assured Eiji that there was no way Hina had been kidnapped and shoved in a van. WHOOPS.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Not sure if this is a rhetorical question? I wouldn't want to spoil if you don't want me to answer.

It's rhetorical in the sense that I don't want an answer, but it's not rhetorical in the sense that I literally do not remember if this is it for Mezool and Gamel. I don't remember basically anything about this show!

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 17 - “A KENDO GIRL, ODEN, AND A DIVIDING YUMMY”



A KENDO GIRL:
After an episode that largely eschewed any Real People Dealing With Real Problems stuff (other than, uh, being kidnapped?), this episode goes back to the tried and true two-episode Yummy Trouble format, as a kendo girl deals with hidden personal issues and incredibly visible Yummy issues.

The problem with your typical Yummy Trouble plot is that you’ll often get the effect in Part 1, but the cause in Part 2. It’s good for building a mystery – what deep-seated personal issues are driving Shiratori, and how is Uva profiting off of them – but sort of not great for talking about at this stage of the story. Shiratori is clearly bothered by something, but what it is specifically will have to wait for further investigation and/or detonation.

At first glance, we’re dealing with her need to be stronger, which tracks with her lack of success in a kendo match, but the Yummy dividing seems more crucial than its fighting prowess; I feel like we’re in a story about loneliness, not a story about a girl who wants to physically dominate her competition. But we’ll know for sure next episode!

ODEN:
Okay, there, I talked about something other than Date. I did my job! Now it’s time for the fun part.

Date is so, so fun. He’s exactly the sort of guy Kougami would hire as his Kamen Rider: an uninquisitive blowhard who’s charmingly self-centered, and willing to do any weird thing to achieve his goals. Kougami couldn’t be more pleased with this guy if he were a sentient cake. (Kougami reading over Date’s CV all bug-eyed and sweaty, shouting SPLENDID! at every page.) Where Eiji is Good and Ankh is Evil, Date’s just, like, Chaotic. He’s here to do his job, he’s not going to try super hard, and he’s mildly sorry for you if that screws up your whole thing. He just works here! Take it up with Kougami!

The first full Birth fight scene follows those beats pretty closely, with some completely sloppy shooting and a general unfamiliarity with whatever is going on. (He still calls Ankh “Anko”! It’s great!) A ton of it is For Display Purposes-style combat, showing off not just the cool new gun but all the cool powers of the Birth system for children that may be inspired to badger their parents for post-New Year's toys. I’m a sucker for all of it, though, so this is in no way a complaint. I’m a huge mark for the POP of the Henshin, the coin operation of each power, the CHNG CHNG CHNG of the gun… I love it all, it’s incredibly fun to see in action.

And even when he’s not being Birth, I like that Date is just chilling out at an oden stall? His job is to go collect Cell Medals, and he can’t do that until a Yummy pops up. He’s sort of vaguely investigating Shiratori, because that’s his lead on the Yummy, but saving her isn’t his job or anything. He’s after Cell Medals, and it’s not personal.

That’s sort of the part I like the best? We’ll get into Date’s motivation in a little bit, but I like how even in this episode, we’re talking about how desires intersect with needing to earn a living. There’s what you want, and what you have to do to get it, and what skills you can apply to the process. How those steer people in different ways is a fun thing to discuss in a show like this. I’m glad to see the new Rider already opening up new topics!

AND A DIVIDING YUMMY:
look i told you that i wanted to talk about date and i did and now we’re done

(Okay, one thing: the fight between OOO, Ankh, and the two Yummies takes place in the same partially-outdoor parking garage as the recent debut fight for Vram on Gavv. I loved that fight! And this one was good, too!)

[Androzani84]

So here we are, at the full debut of the new guy. Given how people feel they’re justified in complaining that the Zein a driver doesn’t shred the cards (even though said cards are typically made of plastic, not paper, and would probably jam the blades of any shredder), I feel justified in jokingly complaining about the fact the Birth Driver toy doesn’t disintegrate the Cell Medals (not even the CSM).

And now, the obligatory guest star highlight.

Sentai-lert!

The Sensei our Yummy victim has a student crush on is played by Mitsuomi Takahashi, better known as Satoru Akashi/BoukenRed of GoGo Sentai Boukenger.

And as for our Yummy victim herself (how big is her desire? She makes two Japanese Beetle Brother Yummies out of it), she later went on to be married to a guy whose Rider association is with Hearts during his Ultra Blaze-r of glory

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

And as for our Yummy victim herself (how big is her desire? She makes two Japanese Beetle Brother Yummies out of it), she later went on to be married to a guy whose Rider association is with Hearts during his Ultra Blaze-r of glory

Aw, good for them!

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Yuri also wanted to save the world, which was considered conventional heroism for his time, but by interacting with Touma, he realized that heroism had grown to become saving the people who live in the world, as the people are what make the world worth saving.

As mentioned by Die, saving the world can often be a tricky obsession for Secondary Riders. At worst, they can actually become the problem that the world needs saving from, like Tachibana, Kumon Kaito, Daiji and Keiwa, when their sense of justice becomes warped by what they see as being wrong with the world. It's good to have a vision for a better future, only as long as the present doesn't have to suffer for it.

There are also several secondaries whose conflict with the primary is about the primary dreaming big to save everyone and achieve improbable best-case scenarios, dismissing their idealism to achieve long-term ideal possibilities, perhaps like Ren (who wants to save Eri) dismissing Shinji wanting to save everyone as naive. Oh, I guess rather than saving the world, the primary Rider type often proclaims to want to save everyone, which can correlate to want to save entire world too. And among those, people'd see Keiwa as the type who's focused on little ways to change the world for the better, not tempted by desires (only joining the DGP to protect others), putting others (e.g. giving Boost) above it/winning. His heel turn is just seen as natural/depraved world of Geats failing him, they think people like other main Rider-type would all snap too like Keiwa if put in his position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 17 - “A KENDO GIRL, ODEN, AND A DIVIDING YUMMY”

The problem with your typical Yummy Trouble plot is that you’ll often get the effect in Part 1, but the cause in Part 2. It’s good for building a mystery – what deep-seated personal issues are driving Shiratori, and how is Uva profiting off of them – but sort of not great for talking about at this stage of the story. Shiratori is clearly bothered by something, but what it is specifically will have to wait for further investigation and/or detonation.

Even Tsukuba was also bothered when he realizes that the Yummy born from his desires was actually attacking people. Guess though people'd like to depict desires and ambition negatively (where Eiji is too tolerant), having them doesn't necessarily make one want to throw people under the bus to achieve it. Eiji did console her to say that the monster just has the untampered desire of the person that spawned it and thus it has different will to just attack. Though Eiji can fight untransformed well, he really struggles against this one Yummy, as he claims that it's made of metal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Date is so, so fun. He’s exactly the sort of guy Kougami would hire as his Kamen Rider: an uninquisitive blowhard who’s charmingly self-centered, and willing to do any weird thing to achieve his goals. Kougami couldn’t be more pleased with this guy if he were a sentient cake. (Kougami reading over Date’s CV all bug-eyed and sweaty, shouting SPLENDID! at every page.) Where Eiji is Good and Ankh is Evil, Date’s just, like, Chaotic. He’s here to do his job, he’s not going to try super hard, and he’s mildly sorry for you if that screws up your whole thing. He just works here! Take it up with Kougami!

While it's common for secondaries to be darker characters, dunno about depicting Date negatively here to deem him as self-centered or ruthless (the willing to do any weird thing part). He does get in Ankh's way to survive and collect Cell Medals, but inconveniencing the protagonist isn't something bad in someone, in actuality, Ankh'd be the suspicious one as he claims he'd create Yummies if he can (you refer to him as Evil here, but still talk about him as 'the heroes' otherwise). Date is a rare type of secondary where he's the happy-go-lucky type, and is amiable with the other Riders from the start, and he also warns Eiji and Ankh about being shot in his battle too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

And even when he’s not being Birth, I like that Date is just chilling out at an oden stall? His job is to go collect Cell Medals, and he can’t do that until a Yummy pops up. He’s sort of vaguely investigating Shiratori, because that’s his lead on the Yummy, but saving her isn’t his job or anything. He’s after Cell Medals, and it’s not personal.

I'd even say if someone's truly good, it's a greater indication if they'd save people outside of their job, rather than doing it because of their job. Like, someone having a noble occupation like soldier, cop, or doctor doesn't necessarily mean that they're morally righteous (or more virtuous than the average person) by themselves, even though if they're good, there'd be good outcome of people being saved. Though obviously there'd be those who genuinely want to save people in those jobs, saving people due to a job can be something forced upon someone who normally doesn't care.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

While it's common for secondaries to be darker characters, dunno about depicting Date negatively here to deem him as self-centered or ruthless (the willing to do any weird thing part).

The "willing to do any weird thing part" was more in reference to how INCREDIBLY WEIRD it must be to be a gashapon-flavored armored warrior, tasked with collecting one hundred million magical coins from desire-powered monsters and duplicitous ancient demigods. That's so weird! Kougami employs people to do weird things -- see also: Satonaka -- and is very clear that you gotta sometimes do weird, potentially humiliating things to achieve your desires. Kamen Rider Birth is maybe that!