[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

On the other hand, Birth never has to worry about losing access to any of his powers, as Cells all give the same output. If OOO loses his only Batta for example, then no more Tatoba until he finds a new one. But Birth knows he's going to burn through Cells no matter what, so he only has to think about turning the fight in to a profit, which means he can afford to be more reckless than OOO.

Yeah, it's really the show taking the early episodes' plot of Ankh desperately needing Cell Medals and handing it over to Date. Ankh still sort of needs Cell Medals to, uh, live, but we've leveled up out of that part of the narrative into a hunt for Core Medals. It's very economical of the show to give the jettisoned premise to its Secondary, which is thematically appropriate!

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Oh right, I did promise Fish that I would point out my favorite mismatch form when it appeared. Of course, I'm talking about TakaUnagiCheetah! I think the passive spatial awareness of Taka, the large AOE of Unagi and the super speed of Cheetah seem like a good mix for manipulating the distance between OOO and the enemy to OOO's advantage.

I approve of your taste! Personally, I've always been fond of the idea of any random form using Gorilla and Cheetah. (Which I know you do get to see at least once somewhere in the show.) Not so much for any particular aesthetic value, but just because to me, it always seemed like the raw offensive power and speed of that pairing would be totally OP in basically any situation.

Also I rewatched the fight scene from the end of 18 after reading this post, and noticed two things:

- Eiji doesn't actually use the Cheetah legs at all?

- The director here, Takayuki Shibasaki, conveys the fun beat of Birth charging his cannon while OOO fights using the exact same style of split-screen gimmick he used back in Kabuto, which is neat.

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 19 - “RED MEDAL, A DETECTIVE, AND BETRAYAL”



There’s really two main modes for modern-day (Heisei/Reiwa) Kamen Rider stories: Morals and Pulp. You can sort of slot every episode of every modern-day series somewhere on that spectrum, from Pure Morals – little short stories about people and the lessons we can learn from their heightened tokusatsu dilemmas – to Pure Pulp – extravagant adventures of super-powered people with not much in the way of lessons learned. A story will likely drop in somewhere between the two poles (a Pulp story with a little bit of a Moral, or a Moral with a tiny Pulp subplot), but that’s kind of the formula of the franchise, tonally.

The thing that’s always elevated OOO for me is how confidently it can attack both tones, and how easily it can swing from one to the other without losing focus. The last two-parter was a straight up Moral story (Shiratori’s need to won up to her feelings, in order to control them) without much to say about the Pulp plotting that makes up this show’s spine. Now that Date’s been fully introduced, the show swings back into Pulp mode, with an emphasis on Core Medal distro.

The Yummy of this one is an escaped prisoner who wants revenge on the guy who sold him out, plus the detective who put him away, plus maybe their family members, plus a guy he stole clothes from, plus a fire plug. It’s not exactly a relatable moral that kids can grow from. (I mean, god, I hope!) Eiji and Ankh are mostly just protecting themselves and Hina here, not trying to understand the motivations of a crazed attacker. We are not learning anything in this one.

But we are being entertained, and that’s the easier lift for a Pulp-heavy story. This one’s got its mind set on reintegrating Kazari into the plot after the last few stories, and he’s working every angle he can in order to get the Cores of his that Ankh’s been helpfully carrying around in a Core Medal case. (It’s seriously just asking to get swiped!) A Kazari-instigated problem is usually a more Pulp-heavy story, with more angles on it than an Uva dilemma (straight-ahead, really not too difficult) or a Mezool plan (desperately trying to avoid detection). Kazari schemes in a way that the other Greeed just plot, and his stories tend to have the greater number of moving parts and goals.

Like, hey, Yasu is working for Kazari! Kazari went out and employed a duplicitous henchman to take advantage of Eiji’s protectiveness! I like a story where it feels like the villains have been watching the same show I have, and they’ve learned the weak points for the hero emotionally as well as physically. Kazari gets how the Eiji/Ankh team works, so he’s able to plant a weasel in their midst to get what he needs. It’s smart! He’s a smart cat!

I really dug this episode. It’s not trying to do much more than progress the overall plot in the most thrilling way possible, and it’s incredibly good at doing that. (Even around the edges we got Gotou working at Cous Coussier and Date living in Maki’s lab, two things we’ll probably come back on very shortly.) I do not mind a healthy dose of Pulp when it’s served this smoothly!

[Sunred]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The reason why Akira Date was the best, just chillin' at an evil mad scientist's lab cooking food on a portable stove as if it was a dorm room.

[Androzani84]

Given his distaste for the name “Birth” and his preference for endings, one wonders what Maki would've named the Kougami Foundation’s Rider.

Also, I suppose it’s nice that we actually get a plot out of Ankh wearing Keiji-San as a formal suit. Though I think the new hybrid Yummies that are stronger than regular Yummies (citation needed) is something that would work better if the show wasn’t comprised mostly of two parters, because otherwise they just come off as a slightly different looking monster to normal.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunred

The reason why Akira Date was the best, just chillin' at an evil mad scientist's lab cooking food on a portable stove as if it was a dorm room.

He seems like a terrible roommate, and I would not have been upset if this show abandoned all of the Medal mythology and just pivoted entirely into an Odd Couple riff with Maki and Date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Also, I suppose it?s nice that we actually get a plot out of Ankh wearing Keiji-San as a formal suit.

It's sort of amazing that this random informant is the first person in four months to try and connect with Shingo. Like, I know we already got a story about Hina needing to have more in her life than her brother, but at least she's got a couple friends! Who in Shingo's life has checked in on him that we've ever seen? (He's taking an indefinite sabbatical from the police force! He nearly died in a car accident!) I feel like, of the two siblings, it's Shingo's attachment to his sister over every other human connection that's maybe the bigger problem!

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 20 - “BAIT, SUITABILITY, AND THE FLAMING COMBO”



It’s fun to watch a whole episode that’s just about the tension between the inherently selfless Eiji and the inherently selfish Ankh.

It’s a little similar to Episode 15, in that everything here feels like a red line for the Eiji/Ankh partnership. Ankh counterschemes to wrest one of his precious Core Medals from Kazari’s grasp, but in a way that flings Eiji off of a roof and requires threatening Hina. Meanwhile, Eiji has kept one of Ankh’s Medals from him, fearing *see the last sentence*. These two are firmly in opposition, and yet… it also basically doesn’t matter?

It could seem a little flippant, how much Eiji doesn’t care about Ankh’s rapacious self-interest, or how much Ankh was never really going to hurt Hina. (It’s all threats, no real violence.) But there’s another plot in this episode, and I think it’s instructive in how to read what’s really going on with Ankh and Eiji.

We get the first part of one of my favorite long-term sub-plots, which is the Date/Brotou stuff. (I’m sure other subbing groups stick with “Gotou-chan”, but I came up on this group's “Brotou”, and that’s the hill I’ll die on. It just feels truer to Date’s affection for this skinny child!) Gotou’s been tying himself in knots about whether or not he’s the right man to be Birth, and if his principles and pride are an obstacle to helping people. But Date makes it easy for him – he can’t even fire the Birth gun. All of the high-minded morality and ethics are missing the main point that Gotou can’t even do the job he’s worrying about, which is putting the philosophical cart in front of the tokusatsu horse. Date suggests that Gotou should maybe dedicate himself to being able to do his dream first, then decide if it’s a dream worth doing.

That’s sort of the zone that Eiji and Ankh find themselves in at the end of the episode. Eiji can’t trust Ankh to do what’s right, but he can trust Ankh to do what’s right for himself. Ankh hates Eiji’s obtrusive morality, but that obtrusive morality is the only hope Ankh has to rebuild his body. The arguments about the why of it all… that can all come after the immediate concern of what needs doing today. Despising each other for the ways their worldviews don’t align misses how effective they can be as a team. You can disagree about motivations, but that’s okay – the end results are what sometimes matter most.

It makes for a story that honors both characters' individuality without compromising their bond. The little bit of swagger Ankh has when Eiji turns up for their battle against Kazari and the Yummy! Eiji knowing that Ankh will be there with the Medals he needs, even though Ankh flung him into the river! Ankh trusting Eiji with TaJaDor – here given so much more weight and significance than Movie Core’s whole Hey I Randomly Found This Please Use It In A Fight thing – even though Ankh has schemed for the last two episodes for this shot at resurrection! It’s all brilliant in how it leverages the tenuousness of their partnership, as well as the inevitability of their reconciliation.

Perfect OOO episode.



(Programming note: I got work and then the Super Bowl tomorrow, so we will be moving Episode 21 to Monday night. See you then!)

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 19 - ?RED MEDAL, A DETECTIVE, AND BETRAYAL?

The Yummy of this one is an escaped prisoner who wants revenge on the guy who sold him out, plus the detective who put him away, plus maybe their family members, plus a guy he stole clothes from, plus a fire plug. It?s not exactly a relatable moral that kids can grow from. (I mean, god, I hope!) Eiji and Ankh are mostly just protecting themselves and Hina here, not trying to understand the motivations of a crazed attacker. We are not learning anything in this one.

Though Ankh wouldn't care at all about humanity, despite benefitting Eiji, perhaps people'd prefer if one'd just straight up eliminate prisoners, particularly because of how Yasu ended up here, rather than trying to save them, which Eiji does think of because of Toichi being a Kazari Yummy, as saving them would just endanger the public. Maybe there can be more complaints about this (or perhaps even other unlikable Yummy hosts) if Toichi is a major villain, rather than an MOTW story aspect, where it seems people don't bring up much about MOTW stories of KR serieses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

But we are being entertained, and that?s the easier lift for a Pulp-heavy story. This one?s got its mind set on reintegrating Kazari into the plot after the last few stories, and he?s working every angle he can in order to get the Cores of his that Ankh?s been helpfully carrying around in a Core Medal case. (It?s seriously just asking to get swiped!) A Kazari-instigated problem is usually a more Pulp-heavy story, with more angles on it than an Uva dilemma (straight-ahead, really not too difficult) or a Mezool plan (desperately trying to avoid detection). Kazari schemes in a way that the other Greeed just plot, and his stories tend to have the greater number of moving parts and goals.

Even if it's just Kazari and some Yummies, the stakes feel bigger than the one in ep. 15 about the chase scene and multiple Greeeds being after OOO and Goto, though OOO hasn't used any combos yet, where ep. 15 had him using 2 at once. Dr. Maki's contribution probably should be brought up too, as someone who worked with Kazari, and the actual main antagonist of OOO. Dr. Maki claims Birth's may be stronger than OOO, but here, Kazari seems to view Birth as weaker than OOO as Birth relies on Cell Medals unlike OOO with Core Medals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Like, hey, Yasu is working for Kazari! Kazari went out and employed a duplicitous henchman to take advantage of Eiji?s protectiveness! I like a story where it feels like the villains have been watching the same show I have, and they?ve learned the weak points for the hero emotionally as well as physically. Kazari gets how the Eiji/Ankh team works, so he?s able to plant a weasel in their midst to get what he needs. It?s smart! He?s a smart cat!

Ofc, this'd have the fanbase dismiss the goody two shoes' virtue as naivety. Naivety is something commonly implemented in the goody two shoes type of characters like most of the main Riders, to the point that people'd think being kind automatically makes you naive. Otherwise, Yasu being actually still a scumbag may send a harsh yet true implication that, once a criminal, always a criminal, they should be just automatically viewed as a lost cause, they're just inherently evil like monsters and can't ever change, so continue the outcast treatment of them even after they served their sentence. While it can be true on criminals that has sentences, like Toichi still holding a grudge to a cop for locking him up, regular civilians may be also as evil, when given an opportunity (e.g. power), just that they haven't got caught yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

If Keiwa wasn't tempted by desires, then Giroli wouldn't have even bothered inviting him to the DGP. World peace and reviving the dead aren't "little things to change the world for the better", those are very big things! Much too big for one man to do alone, which is why Keiwa feels like he cannot forsake the DGP, using the delusion of protecting people and helping rivals to make himself feel better and feed his inner cynicism that they owe him for his heroic deeds. Somebody without desire like Eiji certainly wouldn't have joined DGP or fought for them in Desire Royale. Neither would Shinji, who wants a complete stop to the fighting.

Well, the little things obviously don't refer to Keiwa's wishes, but rather about how in the fanbase's eyes, in the DGP Keiwa prioritizes helping/protecting people and aiding other players, even if he'd lose his chance to win or sacrifice himself, in contrast to other players fighting each other and focus on winning (anything good they do aren't genuine). So, by this, in fanbase's eyes, Keiwa's wishes aren't a priority to him (until the loss of his family where one naturally gets a downward spiral), just a bonus if he somehow wins, but Keiwa joins the DGP for the same reason as Shinji joining the Rider War, to protect people and other Riders. Even if Shinji wants a complete stop to the fighting, he wouldn't be able to do it as a completely normal human eh, that'd be why he chose to join the Rider War too (and in Advent Calendar, Shinji had a wish to revive all Rider War victims). Eiji/Shinji obviously wouldn't fight for DR, which is proably the true reason why Keiwa hating Mitsume is seen as weird. KR fanbase also tend to vilify desire (and praise those who'd use their wishes for other people's sake), like what you said for OOO here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Date is kind of like what I imagine Ankh's role would be if Ankh actually cared about other people's problems. In a show that often vilifies desire, it's a good moral that it's okay to have desires as long as you don't end up hurting others to obtain them. Date is a selfish yet noble man, so he's qualified to deliver that in a way that Eiji isn't and motivated to deliver in a way that Ankh isn't.

OOO is a rather more lighthearted show, so perhaps Ankh can be just viewed as a tsundere regarding his claims about not caring about people's problems (which you also do for some depraved characters), as people'd see any lighthearted shows as all black and white, lumping all the good guys as white together, there can't be any moral ambiguity for lighthearted shows. Though yeah, bad guys on good guys side like Ankh or Black Woz isn't being much of an obstacle to the noble main Riders and that they never really cause any damage despite them aiming for something sinister (due to main Riders being more often the ones that take action), they'd be viewed as completely fine, another straight-up good guys just for being a help for the main Rider (protagonist centered morality...).

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Though Ankh wouldn't care at all about humanity, despite benefitting Eiji, perhaps people'd prefer if one'd just straight up eliminate prisoners, particularly because of how Yasu ended up here, rather than trying to save them, which Eiji does think of because of Toichi being a Kazari Yummy, as saving them would just endanger the public.

I don't know who this hypothetical viewer is, but they sound miserable. I don't think anyone's clamoring for OOO to execute prisoners?

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I don't know who this hypothetical viewer is, but they sound miserable. I don't think anyone's clamoring for OOO to execute prisoners?

Hmm... to begin with, as I said there too, I don't hear often from people about anything regarding the MOTW stuff of KR shows, so I'd almost never hear something like Yamano or Shiratori other than the discussions here or other complete analyses like akinoame's. But regarding superhero media in general, I'm basing this part based on how there are many complaints about heroes wanting to save irredeemable bastards like reaching out a terrible but tragic villain (if they're major characters), or them having a no kill rule which prevents them from finishing off unlikable bastards too. One of the main reasons for this complaint is because they can endanger others by doing this (and it means they prioritize their own worldview to other people's wellbeings), which is understandable...