[Fish Sandwich]

It's hard to speak to how the boxer storyline itself played out when I'm operating off of like 6 year old memories (evidently it wouldn't hurt to go rewatch OOO again!), but I recall on my last rewatch really liking the way this story brought stuff about Eiji's character to the forefront that ends up being hugely relevant to the rest of the series.

Like, I don't remember off the top of my head if there was any specific moral lesson this story was or was not teaching properly or improperly, so I can't argue that point right now, but I definitely recall Hina and Date's concern over Eiji's behavior, and I definitely recall that neither of those characters just forgets about that or sweeps it under the rug from here. For Date in particular, I think his unique perspective on Eiji is one of the most neat things about how he completes the show's dynamic, even.

[Androzani84]

One thing I forgot to mention is that this episode and the next couple were delayed by a week due to the 2011 Earthquake. I?m not sure what effect it had on the overall series progression, but it pays off with episode 28 for reasons I?ll discuss when we get there.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zatyme

And I think a storyline like this would be better with someone who wasn?t a boxer legitimately . Like an artist regaining the use of his dominant hand and taking up art. As the idea of people having passions that are a fundamental part of them and what it mean for them to deny other people this passion in order for themselves to experience it.

Yeah, I think the whole This Guy Already Has Brain Damage part of it kind of irrevocably taints any suggestion that Okamura should be allowed to pursue his dream at any cost. He's been retired for about twelve minutes, and he's like I WILL DO THIS UNTIL IT KILLS ME. Dude, maybe take a couple night classes! Try streaming! I don't know! You're like, 30 years old! You can have other dreams!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Like, I don't remember off the top of my head if there was any specific moral lesson this story was or was not teaching properly or improperly, so I can't argue that point right now, but I definitely recall Hina and Date's concern over Eiji's behavior, and I definitely recall that neither of those characters just forgets about that or sweeps it under the rug from here. For Date in particular, I think his unique perspective on Eiji is one of the most neat things about how he completes the show's dynamic, even.

Yeah, the Eiji stuff isn't nearly as big of a deal to me as far as muddled morals or whatever, but I'd've maybe liked it a little better if the episode had foregrounded Date and Gotou's concern over Eiji beyond a vague comedic frustration. The content is there -- Hina smartly asks if being OOO is maybe killing Eiji, leading to both Gotou and Date realizing that neither of them ever asked anyone at Kougami about it -- but I could've used a little pushback from Birth over the Yummy fight at the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

One thing I forgot to mention is that this episode and the next couple were delayed by a week due to the 2011 Earthquake. I?m not sure what effect it had on the overall series progression, but it pays off with episode 28 for reasons I?ll discuss when we get there.

Thanks!

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 27 - “1000, A MOVIE, AND A MOOK”



A Kamen Rider movie?! Based on Takeshi Hongo’s origin? And released as multiple TV episodes? There’s no way that’ll work.

I think I prefer this type of anniversary celebration, of 1000 episodes -slash- 40 years, for how it takes a different look at the history of Kamen Rider’s success – namely, for how it’s also a history of Shocker et al’s failure. Where another series might point to the legacy of heroic perseverance that’s delivered the world from ruin across multiple generations, a Shocker mook might instead see it as a constant series of humiliating (and escalating) defeats. Hongo’s creation is the original sin of Kamen Rider villainy, the spark that burned down every single evil organization’s dream of global conquest.

Deciding to talk about how one person or group’s constant success could be another person’s constant failure, that’s fun. Doing it all through a bonkers parody of Showa excess, where the main plotline is that Gotou can’t act? That’s amazing. You cannot get me on an OOO story’s side faster than canonically pointing out that Gotou is incredibly boring to watch, and he’s sort of a drag on the fun. (I honest to god can’t tell the difference between Normal Gotou and Bad Actor Gotou, so when the cast started reacting to him like he was a dull obstacle to art, I was like Oh Man They Got My Letter.) There’s a fun running gag to him getting endlessly demoted in the production, where it not only mirrors the last 26 episodes for him, but it also mirrors Shocker’s declining relevance. Much like Gotou, Shocker’s a joke, and this episode is the punchline.

The Shocker Beast! Zero threat, despite the insane Tiger Squid Yummy design. I like that he’s never treated as anything other than a clown, because that’s Shocker. That’s 40 years of being Rider Kicked into cartoonish incompetence. But, like, he keeps showing up. He keeps trying to murder Kamen Riders, even when they’re just Megumi from Ryuki and a tiny friend, who kick his ass for fun. That dedication to doing the work, no matter the outcome… it’s such a fun rebuttal to Maki’s cutting remarks about failure negating intention.

Whole episode’s just a very fun way to talk about how failure is really just a new opportunity to succeed, even if it’s over a 40-year timeline. Even if it’s just trying to find a way to not be the worst actor on a set that includes Chiyoko hamming it up, Ankh being too in his element as a theatrical tyrant, and Eiji not needing to do more than be in his underwear. (How Kougami didn’t get cast as Hongo, I’ll never know.) I like these retrospectives more when they can illuminate something poignant about the history of the franchise, and Let’s Hear It For The Mooks is a pretty great theme.

[Androzani84]

Honestly, the highlight here is Chiyoko trying to help Goutou learn to act so she can live her dreams through him.

Also, the ex-Shocker’s grunt’s name being “In Sendo”, which in western naming order would be “Sendo In”, a play on “Sentoin” (literally “Combatman”). It’s basically the equivalent to a US production having a bad guy minion named “Manfred Hench”.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Honestly, the highlight here is Chiyoko trying to help Goutou learn to act so she can live her dreams through him.

It's maybe the best use of Chiyoko so far, and something that sort of makes me wish she had more to do in normal episodes.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 26 - “ANKH, THE RING, AND FULLY-LOADED”

The Eiji thing is… I don’t know, standard heroic Kamen Rider stuff that also feels short-sighted and frustrating. There’s nothing in here saying that Birth couldn’t take care of this threat himself – Birth is literally built to finish off Yummies – but we still get a heavily-injured Eiji risking his life while, y’know, heavily injured. He’s at a way greater risk than Date would’ve been, and it all feels too foolhardy, too precarious. Like, him showing up to protect Ankh? Good! Him continuing to hang around for the fight after Ankh is safe and Team Birth arrives? Bad! Dumb! Dangerous!

Yeah, this happens anywhere in KR, for the one goody two shoes/paragon role like most main Riders. I'm also one of those who think heroism shouldn't be about sacrifice or suffering, the primary thing is about helping others, and it's ok to find ways that don't involve said 2 to help. The others who try to stop them (e.g. Hina, Date) seem to be presented as the lesser heroic folks who are negatively influencing the paragon to make them less self-sacrificing. But dunno if the audience, particularly the KR purist types, wouldn't appreciate these types of characters learning to be less self-destructive, that they still accuse them or the KR series of making them "turn their back" on the people who need their help from monsters, despite that how they can't save anyone if they're dead. I rather hate that generally people depict any kind of inaction negatively and unheroic when it can be another way to help like if one ensures they're at their best or if they're thinking of strategies before acting, inaction doesn't always mean doesn't care about others smh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I can kind of squint and see what the boxer storyline is talking about. A life lived in safety that denies your desires is more dangerous to your well-being than a risky life lived in pursuit of your desires. Basically, don’t be afraid to chase your dreams. Or, I don’t know, maybe it’s that life is uncertain? (i have a very hard time seeing the positive message in the boxer story!) But, like, this guy has legitimate brain damage. His life is already going to be horrible. Is this show seriously suggesting that him dying in the ring (possibly every single match!) is going to be a better life for him than, uh, not risking his life to pursue his dream of sporting glory? This is horrible! This is a horrible message. Okamura acts at the end like he just needs to do some rehab on his hand and he’ll be good as new, but that was never the real problem. He cannot take any more hits to the head; you cannot rehab CTE. It is not heroic for this guy to risk his life for a sport! Beyond the fact that literally no humane governing body for boxing would allow it (so, probably only 80% of them), think of what it would mean for any of his opponents to fight against a guy this close to death. You think they’re agreeing to kill this guy during a boxing competition, just because he wants a meaningful death?! This is horrible.

I don't think that this is anything heroic though, doesn't seem that any desires in OOO are presented as something heroic (Date is heroic for reasons not related to his main desire). Dunno, if this kind of message is rather like, for example, something in Kobayashi's previous work Ryuki, where it's not about how long you live that, determines a life's worth, but about how satisfied you are in living it even if it's short, which is how Kitaoka lets go of his desire to be immortal. Living his life in a way that one wouldn't want, and can't be retrained or changed (may be inevitable for seniors, but Okamura's still far from that age), may lead one into depression for instance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Ankh is closest to the Cous Coussier gang, so he gives them special treatment.

Can there be any cases when a token evil teammate/ally who'd spend prolonged time with the good guy cast is legitimately not attached at all to them and that their hostility stays throughout their truce, than they really only work together for mutual benefit and not for any form of attachments to each other?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Hmm, I guess I have the unpopular opinion of agreeing with Okamura then. While I get Date's point about Eiji, who's a little too willing to sacrifice himself for others but not for himself, I don't think it's fair for anybody to try and deny Okamura the chance to have his glorious death in battle. Boxing is his life, so if he can't have that, then what's he supposed to do? It would be like if someone told Date he can't be a doctor anymore, since one of his motivations for taking care of his life is so he can continue to take care of other people's lives. If one of the main morals is about desire in moderation, then I believe giving up your desire is going too far and not heroic at all.

At least, I agree with what Die said, that Okamura might be able to stay in the boxing world, by being a trainer for the next generation for instance (don't think that finding hobbies outside boxing would work though, as Okamura already said he has no direction on where he'd be outside of it). For your example, I guess I think if Date wants to take care of other people's lives, there are other jobs that are about protecting lives I guess, it's not only limited to being a doctor. You do seem to be the few one who'd celebrate deaths, like if it's glorious or such (though not for self-destructive tendencies for main Riders that, I guess, this one, most of the fanbase will celebrate), for this, do you think that one should let a person commit suicide due to being unable to find solutions for their suffering (as far as they know, before others give them a clue) for example?

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Dunno, if this kind of message is rather like, for example, something in Kobayashi's previous work Ryuki, where it's not about how long you live that, determines a life's worth, but about how satisfied you are in living it even if it's short, which is how Kitaoka lets go of his desire to be immortal.

Maybe!

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 28 - “1000, KAMEN RIDER, AND A BIRTHDAY”



HBV story on a TV budget!

It’s insane, this whole thing. Nebulously canonical, despite the presence of Ankh’s subplot. (I love that the entire Medal story amounts to Ankh wondering who has his Core Medals, and Kougami being like Yeah Me Too. That’s it! That’s the new information: That there is no new information!) Everything in here might as well be packed in with a copy of TV-Kun, for how it exists in the larger cultural context of Kamen Rider, rather than the specific world of Kamen Rider OOO.

I’m not mad about it, to be clear. The thousandth episode – and 40th anniversary – kind of deserves something more than just an OOO story with special guests. It’s arguably more appropriate for the OOO story to take a couple weeks off, and just let the vague OOO vibe (and cast) mingle with the ridiculous history of the franchise to create something, if not reverent, than at least celebratory.

Like, the whole episode is a crazy goof, those HBV vibes letting everyone act like a more deranged version of themself while also leaning into the stupidest consequences of any action. It definitely loses its thread around the midway point, forgoing any dramatic tension or emotional connection in favor of Showa satire and relentless buffoonery. There’s maybe a story in here about Mook’s desire, but it doesn’t ever really rise above a loose framework for a bunch of reused suits and a light note about Shocker’s importance to the brand.

(Which, for an episode that is loudly about Shocker, and how only Shocker should beat Kamen Riders, that’s sort of the whole motivation for Mook, he seems to be pretty cool with Worms from Kabuto and Masquerade guys from W taking shots at OOO? I mean, I can sort of write it off as Shocker still beating OOO because Mook is in charge of them, just like every Heisei Shocker story has the Joker Undead as part of the crew, but it needlessly muddies the one actual story this lark has in it. Should’ve stuck to Combatmen!)

I had a good time with this one. It’s Kamen Rider’s birthday, and it’s cool to just shrug off the normal demands of narrative and relax with some hijinks. It’s a party, not a story, and that’s sort of okay in this instance.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

If Yonemura was only going to write two episodes of OOO, this seems like pretty much the perfect story to give to him. (Although, if he was going to write four episodes of OOO...)

...then the nonsensical crossover story with a bunch of Showa throwbacks is even more perfect.

Still a very fun pair of episodes! Probably wouldn't have worked as well with any other show's cast of characters. I dream of one day also having my own dark chamber to sit in and watch every Kamen Rider show all at once like Kougami.