[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

If you ask me, the whole final form debate comes from TaJaDol being used for the final battle instead of PuToTyra? which requires you to ignore that Kobayashi?s Rider shows don?t have the main Rider use their final form in the last battle (Ryotaro instead used Sword Form, while Shinji spent the final battle in whatever afterlife he believes in).

As with any OOO debate, Anything Goes!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Clearly Gotou is the MVP of the whole story.

...except this.

[GodSpeedLove]

Speaking of Ankh's final line, does anyone have a copy of the last episode where it is actually translated as "I'm not the hand you should be reaching for anymore"? In my subs (Overtime/OZC I think?) It's "I'm not the hand you need help from anymore". I hear the former line said all the time and I think it's much better than the subs I see now. Is that from a previous sub? Is that line less accurate? Either way I think the former is a way cooler final line!

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodSpeedLove

Either way I think the former is a way cooler final line!

I've never seen it that way, but it's a much more poetic phrasing.

[GodSpeedLove]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

There's some behind the scenes stuff here as well, with Kobayashi apparently wanting an ending with Eiji dying instead, but that got an executive veto, like her scrapped ending for Ryuki with all Riders dying.

Wow, really? I would love to see whatever plans they had for those, just to see how that would even happen, especially Ryuki. I mean, what would the message/moral be for those endings? "Your heroes all died, the end"? What are the kids gonna think of that, lol?

[Kamen Rider Die]

SERIES WRAP-UP



A week back, on the summer edition of the Net Movies, I briefly complained that we never saw a good Ankh/Date story. The two actors had great comedic chemistry in the Net Movies sketch, and it seemed like that could’ve translated in a fun way to a couple episodes of OOO. It seemed weird to me that the show never really indulged in the same kind of mix-and-match storytelling another show might've done.

But they can’t. That’s not the show. The show is Eiji/Ankh/Hina. That’s the engine that runs the most compelling and reliable season-long plot of any Kamen Rider show I’ve ever watched. Any other characters only really exist to comment on our main duo of Eiji and Ankh (Gotou/Date, Maki/Kazari), or on Hina’s desire to effect change in a world that isn’t built for her (Kougami, Lost Ankh, the other Greeed). The rhythms of this show are all about the main trio of Hina, Eiji, and Ankh. That’s it.

It makes for a show that’s addictively watchable and propulsive, especially in the final stretch. Where other shows may have a difficult time going up a gear to create something suitably apocalyptic, or lay out the stakes in a clear enough way, OOO just reminds you of the stakes that have been in place since the first episode, and lets the characters work within that conundrum. It never needs to invent another foe or alter a character’s goals, because the very first episode tells you what needs to happen at the end.

That’s my favorite thing about the show, I think – the pleasant symmetry of the ending. It all loops back to the beginning, a perfect circle of storytelling: Eiji on his own, some pocket money and tomorrow’s underwear; Shingo and Hina, living their domestic bliss; Ankh, reduced to Medals. Far from making things feel pointless, it’s like the show took the same state at the end as the beginning to make everything feel richer now that so much had transpired. It’s the lesson Ankh learns by the end, and that Eiji had forgotten at the beginning – a life needs more than just existing to be worth living. Giving all of these characters a new starting point is great, but giving them an old starting point with a new perspective is even better.

I love that choice. I love that we’re sort of back in the Ryuki mode, where the success of our heroes is all internal, and the reward is a blank slate for the future. This was a show where the main spine of the series was the evolution of a narcissistic avian asshole into a sacrificial and grateful avian asshole. Everything with the Medals, and Maki, and the Kougami Foundation… it’s all just the obstacle course that Ankh has to go through alongside Eiji, in order to understand why a life isn’t just something you get, it’s something you earn. For as much as the iconography and merchandising of the show has Eiji as the lead, and Ankh as his hilariously cruel sidekick, I don’t think that’s right? This season is Ankh’s story, with Eiji as, ironically, the angel on his shoulder. The journey of Ankh is everything this show is talking about, while Eiji’s story is the cautionary tale and example. It’s like… it’s like Hibiki. Hibiki is a show where Asamu (and other children; I don’t want to trigger anyone with a full cast list) go on a journey, while the Kamen Rider is there to struggle alongside of them, with a few lessons of their own along the way. OOO is that same thing: Ankh is the character with a finite story, and Eiji is the hero who helps him become a better person.

All of that is why this show always works, even during episodes or stories that weren’t my favorite. There were for sure some bum Yummy stories, same as any other show with their monster plots, but OOO has that Hina/Eiji/Ankh core to keep everything moving in the right direction. There was never a huge turn in the plot that felt forced or even inorganic. Everything for a year felt like a natural consequence of a car accident, an abduction, a heroic deal, and a chance to help others. You could literally watch the first episode and the last episode and you’d get the entire story of OOO. (I mean, I wouldn't recommend it, but you could do it.) Show’s just real solid in its framework.

It’s nice to come back to a show like this and feel like you didn’t unreasonably build it up in your memory. This is the best season of Kamen Rider. It's not my favorite, but it's the best.

[Androzani84]

So my experience with OOO, once I’d sat down and put my effort into watching it… it’s certainly the series that was the last I managed to finish on my old iPad before it stopped recharging.

Jokes aside, I watched his at the same time as Fourze, since I couldn’t decide which I wanted to fully commit to and in the end… neither particularly grabbed me enough to make my top 5. I’m not calling it bad, but I don’t think it’s great either. Firmly middle of the road.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

I?m not calling it bad, but I don?t think it?s great either. Firmly middle of the road.

Wow, I'm sorry to hear that. Thanks for sharing!

[Androzani84]

Random tangent, but Ankh’s actor posted this “family picture” today, and the coincidence was a bit too good to ignore bringing it up here.

[Switchblade]

All in all, I like OOO a lot but don't love it. I think it has a really good cast of characters, with Ankh and Date being two of the all-time greats, and I love the suit designs. I'm not huge on the overall story, though. I think there are just too many elements of the show that feel like Kobayashi went in with a basic plan and decided to just wing it from there. Not a unique problem to OOO; there are several shows where original plans changed as the show developed. There are just a lot of places where I feel like the seams weren't smoothly hidden: Gotou taking over as Birth feels very delayed after all the early set up, it feels like the show doesn't know if Cake Boss is going to be a villain or not for a long time, all the stuff that's been mentioned with the multiple plans for the fifth Greed, etc. It just all doesn't fully come together for me in the end. I'd never say it isn't a good show, but it's not one of my personal favorites.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Random tangent, but Ankh?s actor posted this ?family picture? today, and the coincidence was a bit too good to ignore bringing it up here.

Manifesting OOO energy into the world!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

I think there are just too many elements of the show that feel like Kobayashi went in with a basic plan and decided to just wing it from there. Not a unique problem to OOO; there are several shows where original plans changed as the show developed. There are just a lot of places where I feel like the seams weren't smoothly hidden: Gotou taking over as Birth feels very delayed after all the early set up, it feels like the show doesn't know if Cake Boss is going to be a villain or not for a long time, all the stuff that's been mentioned with the multiple plans for the fifth Greed, etc. It just all doesn't fully come together for me in the end. I'd never say it isn't a good show, but it's not one of my personal favorites.

I guess, for me, I don't really see the seams in the series, even after some discussion of them over the past few months. I'm not saying they aren't there -- Movie War Core fairly blatantly exposes a parallel but different evolution of the series, with less emphasis on the Eiji/Ankh dynamic, and the whole Oh Hey It's That Dinosaur Greeed That We All Remember From The Old Days thing -- but it's not ever anything I noticed in the show. I think, if anything, there's a real deft touch to how the show leaned into the magic of the casting to find something that feels like what was always waiting there, and pivoted away from ideas that in retrospect feel wrong-headed and confused. What's so impressive to me about OOO is that it all feels so considered, every step of the way, even though no show is ever really like that, and that's such an impressive skill.