[Androzani84]

So I don’t really hate this movie, but like a lot of Toei’s reunion movies, it doesn’t leave me with anything other than being something to rewatch if I’m bored (Faiz Paradise Regained, Go-Onger 10 Years Grand Prix, and Hurricaneger 20th being the exceptions. Eiji’s death doesn’t really do much but make the movie anything but predictable, in spite of being planned for a while (Kobayashi confirmed in the leaflet that Ankh in Megamax was written with the fact Eiji died to bring him back in mind, and indeed, a lot of his actions there are properly recontextualised here).

But I will commend them for sticking mostly to props from OOO in the recycling department, with the sole exceptions being King OOO’s cloak (reused from Kamen Rider Extremer/the Great Eyezer) and Kamen Rider Goda’s shins (reused from Another OOO). Talking of Goda, his name is derived from “godatsu”, Japanese for “hijack”. At least it’s more creative than “Muchiri”.

And now, for some highlights from that group watch I went to (and I’ll reveal here that my video failed to load at the start, so I did a download which didn’t finish until after everyone else had finished, so I kept quiet and only commented based on what everyone was saying and what I already knew from online spoilers to avoid delaying everyone else.

(After Eiji gets exploded by King OOO in a flashback) How’d he even survive that?

(After Goda is introduced) Dreamsword: If I end up hating this guy, I’m gonna call him “Gouda”.

(A few minutes later)

En-chan: I’m starting to hate [Goda]

(When Kougami reveals that he created Goda) Name: Oh goddamnit, not again.

DreamSword: I see that for En-chan, he is Gouda.

Ancient OOO’s Multi-King form and KR Goda both got compared to DeviantArt OCs, with the latter being called “peak DeviantArt”.

(After pointing out that Goda is made up of BuraKaWani’s head, TaMaShii’s body and Super TaToBa’s legs) I hope no-one will be needing any OOO movie forms anymore.

And to close off, one gripe I did specifically have was going from an appropriately solemn cover of Anything Goes at the end to the usual upbeat inspirational version.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodSpeedLove

I actually like the idea of Ankh possessing Eiji! It's not a terrible way to keep both characters in the franchise while still keeping this movie relevant, and I like the tinge of blonde hair Eiji gets. I'm not sure why we couldn't just end with that? I'm not sure why Eiji decides he has to die, so Ankh can forever possess poor Shingo? Now Ankh can't use the OOO belt, Hina loses her brother, and the world is down a Kamen Rider to stop whenever King OOO decides to come back, because I guess that's just something he can do now.

If I squint, I can sort of see what the film is going for here -- Eiji wants his friend to be able to live his own life, not feel tied to Eiji's half-existence. It's sweet! It's also stupid in the same ways the rest of the movie is stupid.

-Ankh could potentially heal Eiji by possessing him, which is a win for absolutely everyone in the cast.

-Ankh wanted to spend time with his friend, and now he can't do that.

-If Ankh doesn't possess Eiji (to heal him) and can't form his own body, he's stuck possessing Shingo indefinitely for no benefit to Shingo, which was the entire dilemma of the end of the TV series that Eiji fought to prevent. (Did Shingo just become a gigantic asshole in the past 10 years, so everyone's okay with him being ganked by Ankh?!)

It's really a Big Hero Moment that falls apart if you think about it for even a second, which is at least true to the tone and concept of the movie. I appreciate them sticking to their idiotic guns!

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

But I will commend them for sticking mostly to props from OOO in the recycling department, with the sole exceptions being King OOO?s cloak (reused from Kamen Roder Extremer/the Great Eyezer) and Kamen Rider Goda?s shins (reused from Another OOO). Talking of Goda, his name is derived from ?godatsu?, Japanese for ?hijack?. At least it?s more creative than ?Muchiri?.

Neat! Thanks!

[Sh Ranger]

Sh Ranger Also Watched Medal Of Resurrection

Almost 2 years later, this movie still seems to be pretty polarizing, between those like me who enjoyed it and thought it was thematically appropriate and those who disliked it and thought it ruined the original ending.

As I haven't yet deigned to rewatch OOO, this movie is my most recent memory of it, but even with all that time lapsed, I still felt like I was watching peak OOO. A story about Ankh and Eiji and the ways they changed each other for the better, that's literally the heart of the show and it's exactly what I expected from a movie celebrating 10 years. OOO's ending made it one of the most deserving of a sequel, with the hanging thread of Ankh's revival being constantly teased over and over again without ever letting it stick. Megamax, HeiGen Final and Memory of Heroez kept giving us back Ankh and then taking him away again. So a movie that actually gives us Ankh back and lets us keep him, granting the desire in our hearts, while taking Eiji in exchange, that's a very OOO thing to do, a reminder that desire comes at the cost of something.

I think DreamSword gave a good explanation in reply to my post from that thread. While it's easy to see Eiji's decision to let himself die as hypocrisy and maybe even a little stupid, the whole point is to warn Ankh not to end up like him. Eiji is a true hero to others, but at the same time, he's not an ideal that any sane person should aspire to. Being Eiji, a man without desire who would risk everything for your desire, sounds like a life of endless suffering. And nobody knows that better than Eiji himself. He doesn't want Ankh to spend 10 years looking for a way to revive his loved one, since Eiji already did that and even then, he only succeeded by accident. It's a final admission that desire is essential for human happiness and he doesn't want Ankh to lose that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodSpeedLove

Wow, really? I would love to see whatever plans they had for those, just to see how that would even happen, especially Ryuki. I mean, what would the message/moral be for those endings? "Your heroes all died, the end"? What are the kids gonna think of that, lol?

Like the final episode where Knight defeats Odin and wins the wish to save Eri, except no reset. I imagine Kobayashi's thoughts for the moral was to highlight the danger of wishing for something at the expense of others (like what OOO Episode 21-22 talked about), while the end of the Rider War does provide a happy ending for basically everybody else that's not a Rider or Yui, except for civilians who were killed by Riders or Contract Monsters. Probably the closest thing to that would be Rider Time Ryuki.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

I?m not calling it bad, but I don?t think it?s great either. Firmly middle of the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

I'd never say it isn't a good show, but it's not one of my personal favorites.

Same here. OOO is only 14th on my Heisei Rider Ranking, but it's still good. Just that for anything it does good, I can usually think of another show that does that thing better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Eiji?s death doesn?t really do much but make the movie anything but predictable, in spite of being planned for a while (Kobayashi confirmed in the leaflet that Ankh in Megamax was written with the fact Eiji died to bring him back in mind, and indeed, a lot of his actions there are properly recontextualised here).

Nice to see that Kobayashi was able to secure her vision using Megamax to suggest Eiji's fate, which was then shown in full by Mouri. People blamed Mouri for their dislike of Medal of Resurrection, but if they actually did their research about Kobayashi, they'd know getting the original writer wouldn't have made much difference to the ending. Sucks to see Mouri get scapegoated like that, just like people blaming Fukuda and Takahashi for choices actually made by producers.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Just that for anything it does good, I can usually think of another show that does that thing better.

The thing I keep coming back to, though, is that OOO is perfect to me not because it's the best at everything, but because it's bad at nothing. While other shows may be better than OOO at certain aspects -- a better theme song, better fights, more compelling Monster Mysteries -- those same shows having at least one or two glaring flaws that OOO doesn't suffer from. I think that consistency is more remarkable to me than a handful of better episodes might have been.

[GodSpeedLove]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

And to close off, one gripe I did specifically have was going from an appropriately solemn cover of Anything Goes at the end to the usual upbeat inspirational version.

That really felt like a last minute edit. Did they want us to cheer or something? It almost feels like a "full circle" moment, but this movie really is anything but to me!

[Kamen Rider Die]

OOO 10TH BIRTH X BIRTH - BIRTH X SECRET BIRTH STORY



These TTFC things are always so weird. They don’t have to be hampered as much by continuity and canon and whatever, so they can push the boundaries of their storytelling and references to an absurd degree. It’s a fan club offering, so they can get hilariously Deep Cut with it. That said, I’m a little shocked at exactly how weird and how deep they got with their cuts this time out?

Like, I think it’s totally fine to give Gotou a new status quo in the years since the conclusion of OOO. A sister we’ve never heard about before? Sure, there’s nothing to my knowledge that directly contradicts that from the original OOO series, so why not. (If anything, it makes for a nice Hina/Shingo parallel.) Giving him a new set of enemies outside of the Greeed is bizarre, considering how heavily the Greeed and Medals all factor into the other 10th content, but this is a Gotou story, not an OOO one, so it’s okay to let him work into his own aesthetic and lore.

But, man, doing it all as a tribute to that Heisei Vs Showa movie from 2014? Bringing back the Badan Empire and their Space Break macguffin? VERY WEIRD! Sort of inexplicable! They never really get enough to do to feel like a fully coherent ethos or strategy – it’s all very Showa, in the I Guess It’s Another Bad Guy Group vibe, with Ambassador Darkness being a repainted Ambassador Hell played by the exact same dude – and they barely feel looped into anything Gotou is doing in this one. They’re just sort of the random baddies that cyborgified him into his new form, and now they want to destroy/rule the world, and now he’s got something to do. Gotou’s maybe the only part of OOO that could make this premise even halfway work, because he’s the only one that simplistically wants to save the world without much added flair or context. He’s very retro and Showa in his bland commitment to What’s Right, so why not give him a bland What’s Wrong enemy.

Even the inclusion of the Showa Riders from that 2014 film, to the constant hilarious exclusion of letting Gotou motivate absolutely anything in this story, is sort of perfect for him? It’s a really great gag of the film, that the Showa Riders are basically just doing this all themselves and then Gotou randomly shows up to be there, too. That’s him in OOO, you know? He’s happy to be supporting cast, even in a special nominally devoted to him as the lead. He’s just sort of here, and there’s a story going on, and that’s his lot in life. I love it.

I loved this whole thing, not in spite of how much of a surprise it was, but because of it. A V-Cin or theatrical feature or TV episode would try and make this all work in the continuity we know and love – a TTFC special will make you think you have a fever. It’s insane to me, the connections these creators try and make. Like, the shitty Gaim anniversary film and Gotou from OOO? Bonkers. And I thought the weirdest one of these I’d ever see was that one with Shinobi from Zi-O and Tycoon from Geats…

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The thing I keep coming back to, though, is that OOO is perfect to me not because it's the best at everything, but because it's bad at nothing. While other shows may be better than OOO at certain aspects -- a better theme song, better fights, more compelling Monster Mysteries -- those same shows having at least one or two glaring flaws that OOO doesn't suffer from. I think that consistency is more remarkable to me than a handful of better episodes might have been.

What do you think about shows like W or Fourze regarding this? Are they too bad at nothing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I think DreamSword gave a good explanation in reply to my post from that thread. While it's easy to see Eiji's decision to let himself die as hypocrisy and maybe even a little stupid, the whole point is to warn Ankh not to end up like him. Eiji is a true hero to others, but at the same time, he's not an ideal that any sane person should aspire to. Being Eiji, a man without desire who would risk everything for your desire, sounds like a life of endless suffering. And nobody knows that better than Eiji himself. He doesn't want Ankh to spend 10 years looking for a way to revive his loved one, since Eiji already did that and even then, he only succeeded by accident. It's a final admission that desire is essential for human happiness and he doesn't want Ankh to lose that.

Would be hard to explain that Eiji isn't an ideal that any sane person should aspire to, because as you already know (and that I brought up in this thread), self-sacrifice is something a good number of KR fanbase glorify, and condemn if someone doesn't want to resort to that, particularly from how KR are portrayed in the Showa medias of intentionally putting themselves through pain, hardship, and suffering for others. Though, Eiji has got development though, that previously, he doesn't have a desire, but at the end, he got a desire that he wants power to protect others?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Same here. OOO is only 14th on my Heisei Rider Ranking, but it's still good. Just that for anything it does good, I can usually think of another show that does that thing better.

I'd want to know what some of the examples are where OOO does good, but others do better.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

What do you think about shows like W or Fourze regarding this? Are they too bad at nothing?

I don't remember Fourze well enough to cite exactly what it does wrong -- and I spent three months last year detailing what I thought W did badly -- but yeah, pretty much every non-OOO show has some part of it that doesn't work for me. It might be a plot that rubbed me the wrong way (Tsurugi in Kabuto), or a late-story turn that felt difficult to get onboard with (Kiba in Faiz), or just the general treatment of a female cast member that made me roll my eyes (a dozen shows, but most prominently Gaim). OOO manages to avoid all of those pitfalls over 48 episodes, plus a ton of other ones.

[Androzani84]

If you ask me, Kazari’s new look was a step too far into edge. He looks straight out of the 80s/90s.