[Tokumonkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I'm gonna be way meaner to this one than I want, but my gut is telling me the story here doesn't quite click together in a way that's very satisfying. The whole twist of finding out what's *really* going on with the Dreamer and all, it's great for how it puts the events up to that point in a new light, but even though it changes the context of the plot in a way that makes things more interesting than they were before, I think it might have failed to accomplish changing the emotions of the plot in the same way?

I felt like the story lacked stakes. This is where the weakness of the dream premise is apparent: there was no threat to the real world at any point in the episode. The opening recap tells us "if the third door opens, the dreamer will be trapped in the nightmare forever," but we already learned in the previous two-parter that isn't the case: if Zeztz defeats the Nightmare after the dreamer is possessed, the dreamer is saved.

The stakes for this one boiled down to "a nervous flier might have to board a long flight." And she doesn't overcome her phobia! She just mentions her nightmare to her husband. We didn't even dig deeply enough into it to go from "I had a nightmare" to "hey, honey, I've had a life-long irrational fear of heights due to childhood trauma, and maybe we should discuss that." As someone who, as the result of a scary childhood fall, lived for years with an irrational fear of heights, this was weak sauce.

This bothers me because many other parts of this episode worked well. Our action sequences felt interesting and impactful. There was a whole motorcycle sequence in a Kamen Rider show! Some of the comedy beats actually landed, and that rarely works for me. Overall, except for all of the action taking place in dreams, this was a good episode.

That exception is a doozy. The scene in which Baku meets the bride in the real world underscored this: Baku's dreaming interaction with the bride translates, in the real world, as a particularly creepy parasocial relationship.

[Layton13]

Gotta agree with Fish here.

While I've been loving Zetzt so far, and this episode was still more entertaining than the snooze fest Gavv turned into, it didn't end up resonating with me much either.

The twist is great and recontextualizes everything nicely, besides the actual emotional core of the episode. Not helped, the dreamer doesn't even confront the problem they have in the end. She sidesteps it.

I feel that if there was a moment with Baku and her about facing those things that scare us and not letting them stand in the way of what we want, it could have really brought this together, but it just wasn't there. We get a quick resolution for the redhering instead, which, while nice, would have been better served for our dreamer.

Let's hope this was just a temporary stumble because this show has so much potential to really zero in on its themes, and it'd be really sad if it didn't.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

As a two-parter that's mainly been about communicating your thoughts and feelings, I felt these two episodes worked out pretty well for the most part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Miyuki not knowing how Baku saved her is kind of fitting for the agent theme though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokumonkey

I felt like the story lacked stakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

I feel that if there was a moment with Baku and her about facing those things that scare us and not letting them stand in the way of what we want, it could have really brought this together, but it just wasn't there.

So, having had some time to think about this a little more, I think I've better narrowed down exactly what makes this story feel off to me. I like what DreamSword says about there being cohesion in how honesty in various forms makes everything work out in the end, but the way I see it, if that's the story they were going for, the failure is in how very little of it is really dramatized at all? Baku's arc is a perfect example. It's not as if he has to wrestle with the decision of how close to let Fujimi and Nasuka get or anything -- in the very same scene that becomes an issue, he's simply told what to do, and then does it, and I'm not sure how that actually gave him the confidence to be a better agent?

The problem that feels bigger to me -- which I want to note also hinges entirely on my own personal preconceptions of what kind of show Zeztz is trying to be -- is that I feel like Miyuki deciding not to get on a plane in the end, like Layton13 is saying, is 100% the wrong choice for a plot in this series. As a lesson in general, I think it's fine to say that sometimes it's okay not to force yourself into situations that make you uncomfortable, and it'd be a killer moral for a Kiramager episode, but for Zeztz?

The thing I hadn't locked in on yet when I made that first post is that the missed potential of the twist here is that it turns out Baku and Miyuki are both afraid of falling. Metaphorically, in Baku's case, but it turns out that both characters have this task they don't feel up to, and I would've liked the story to result in them both realizing they can soar? That's all I mean about there being a connection formed between them. Baku doesn't necessarily need to even meet Miyuki in real life, and I even agree it fits better for Seven's heroism to be mostly in the shadows, but what I wanted was for this adventure to shape both of them in a positive way that's satisfying to see as a viewer. I don't know exactly how you could've done this and still had an exciting climax with a crashing plane, but it feels like this story was crying out to establish ZEZTZ as a hero who exists to turn bad dreams that crush people into good dreams that empower them, and to have Baku realize he's capable of that, after mostly fumbling his way through episodes 2 and 3.

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Yeah, it works like the Mission Memories from Faiz. The power goes to where it's needed. Notice that the torso streams and even the green arms also lose their color. Physicam Transform has grey streams as well, but of course Wing has a lot more grey, as the red power is used to create something that wasn't there before. If you look closely at both, you can even see the accent colors matching the Driver, with Transform having a little orange on the limbs and Wing having a little pink on the wings like Zero One Flying Falcon. Pretty cool, right?

Very cool! Thanks for pointing all of that out!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

So, having had some time to think about this a little more, I think I've better narrowed down exactly what makes this story feel off to me. I like what DreamSword says about there being cohesion in how honesty in various forms makes everything work out in the end, but the way I see it, if that's the story they were going for, the failure is in how very little of it is really dramatized at all? Baku's arc is a perfect example. It's not as if he has to wrestle with the decision of how close to let Fujimi and Nasuka get or anything -- in the very same scene that becomes an issue, he's simply told what to do, and then does it, and I'm not sure how that actually gave him the confidence to be a better agent?

I dunno if you're referring to my post specifically or not when it comes to the agent stuff, but I will say I didn't see this two-parter so much about his willingness or confidence as an agent(though it is a small part of it), but moreso the efficiency of which he's able to do so. By forming a team, he's able to save the day, unlike last time. And that came about via him taking Zero's' advice to let the Investigators in on the whole thing despite his initial hesitance.

Quote:

The problem that feels bigger to me -- which I want to note also hinges entirely on my own personal preconceptions of what kind of show Zeztz is trying to be -- is that I feel like Miyuki deciding not to get on a plane in the end, like Layton13 is saying, is 100% the wrong choice for a plot in this series. As a lesson in general, I think it's fine to say that sometimes it's okay not to force yourself into situations that make you uncomfortable, and it'd be a killer moral for a Kiramager episode, but for Zeztz?

...

but it feels like this story was crying out to establish ZEZTZ as a hero who exists to turn bad dreams that crush people into good dreams that empower them, and to have Baku realize he's capable of that, after mostly fumbling his way through episodes 2 and 3.

I can tell that talking about this show with you is gonna be an experience, because here's the thing: I agree with you, but yet at the same time I don't. Lemme do a quick sidetrack real quick.

I'm part of a group chat with some friends, and we've all been chatting about Zeztz as it airs. Back when episode 2 had just gotten done airing, I actually made the prediction that Baku was going to decide that it wasn't enough to just stop bad dreams, but turn them into good ones. And that he'd showcase that by making Detective Guy the one to stop the bomber in the end:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

The episode didn't go how I predicted it would. Heck, it didn't even go how I ideally would've wanted it to, but for what it was, I did still like how this three-parter concluded.

But that didn't happen. And to me, that in itself signaled that it wasn't the sort of story that Zeztz was going to be gunning for.

Sure, that could change as time goes on; We're still early in afterall. But personally I see more evidence towards the story not being about what we both initially thought. But again, it's only episode 5. Whatever the "big theme" of Zeztz is(if it'll even have one) might not make itself obvious until later on down the road.

To be clear, I'm not saying you're "wrong" or anything if this two-parter didn't work for you, I just felt it was interesting how we kinda lined up, just in a bit of an off way, if that makes sense.