[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Tomoko: Kamen Riders are supposed to be heroes of justice.

Toei since 2001 (at most, 1988): It?s funny you think you can dictate that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

There's a moment in 18 where Tomoko breaks up the fight between Fourze and Meteor by shouting that this isn't how Kamen Riders act that always, without fail, makes me think "Oh honey, you didn't watch Kabuto."

Tomoko's arguing (beautifully, passionately, I love the performance here) for friendship between Riders, and you're acting like it's random or off-base? Y'all forget which one Tomoko is?!

[Switchblade]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Tomoko's arguing (beautifully, passionately, I love the performance here) for friendship between Riders, and you're acting like it's random or off-base? Y'all forget which one Tomoko is?!

Touche.

[Fish Sandwich]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

This is basically what I think about when I think about Kamen Rider Fourze!

I was actually particularly looking forward to this thread just so you'd finally have the chance to talk about this specific episode in more detail, because I recall that even from way back, you'd always bring it up as something you really liked in Fourze whenever you had the chance. And yeah, I basically can't add much to the discussion of the story other than a firm "yes yes, that that" to how clever much of it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Meteor, ready? Okay, Meteor!

So I guess instead of even trying, I'll just toss in a mention how much I love the Meteor Galaxy? I think it represents a really clever compromise to allow Bandai the obligatory roleplay weapon for Meteor without having to actually give him a weapon, but simply on a superficial level, those voice clips are still some of my absolute favorites in the ever-increasingly large pantheon of Rider toys with goofy voices. It's been over 10 years at this point and I still randomly hear "Okay! MARS!" in my head more often than quite a few base form transformation sounds for lead Riders.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

So I guess instead of even trying, I'll just toss in a mention how much I love the Meteor Galaxy? I think it represents a really clever compromise to allow Bandai the obligatory roleplay weapon for Meteor without having to actually give him a weapon, but simply on a superficial level, those voice clips are still some of my absolute favorites in the ever-increasingly large pantheon of Rider toys with goofy voices. It's been over 10 years at this point and I still randomly hear "Okay! MARS!" in my head more often than quite a few base form transformation sounds for lead Riders.

I kind of love how basic Meteor's weaponry is, for a Guy Sticks Three Different Planets On His Hands-level of "basic". Where Fourze's Switches are plentiful and bizarre (Wheel gets a funny use, considering that it's probably not ever going to be the main Switch for a guy with a full-size motorcycle), but Meteor's attack options are basically Small, Medium, and Large, with modifiers of fire or, uh, rings. And those announcements! They're like Deneb to me, some outgoing and courteous soundclip for a taciturn and obstructive Rider. OKAY!

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER FOURZE EPISODE 05 - “TWO SIDES TO FRIENDSHIP”

My all-time favorite thing in Fourze is Miu as the leader of the club. She just barges in and declares herself leader because she’s the most clever and charismatic girl in school, plus she’s already in charge of everything school-related as Queen… but then the show goes Yeah She’s Right, which is the funniest possible choice. It’s the idea that you can make a decision about the person you want to be – trying out new conceptions of yourself, new identities, new responsibilities – and you’re allowed to see where it takes you in high school. Every day’s a blank slate, and every dream you have is one you’re allowed to nurture and explore with the right group of friends (and friend-adjacent grumps like Kengo) at your side. Miu shedding things she’s outgrown, like Shun and cheerleading, in order to become a superhero supervisor that goes for moonwalks is such a fun concept to play with, and it alone makes this episode a winner for me. Every scene with Miu is fun and surprising.

You champion people not changing from their mean self, but there's a change in Miu for no longer being on the same page as Shun where she now acknowledges a geek and nerd in repeating what Gentaro said of being the manliest of the man, after Gentaro proving his genuineness of being her friend. Not about forcing people to change, but people's positivity inspiring others to be better. Guess I think Miu's similar to Kengo too where though both are cold to others and destroy gifts given to them, Kengo takes his duties to fight monsters and tells to take injured students to hospital, where Miu also claims as a Queen her duty is to protect the school. I want to figure out things here putting your bias aside, I wonder if what Miu is good for (other than running her mouth) is about her reading people (as how much she climbs the social scene) to become the leader, as she points out about Kengo giving special treatment for Yuki to use his name casually. I do also feel this too as while Kengo dismissed Gentaro at first, he's completely friends with Yuki.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

If you’ve got a big-hearted but impetuous main character like Gen, you inevitably have to do a story where his twin tendencies of seeing the best in people and not really thinking past his immediate desire get him into trouble, so here’s a story where the enormously phony and fawning JK manipulates Gentarou into protecting him from a vengeful Zodiart. JK’s annoying from the first scene of this episode, declaring himself Gen’s best friend and biggest fan and Gen’s the coolest and the most amazing and I hate it. It’s one of those things that haunts this episode in a variety of ways: how the story hits the same buttons over and over, way past where the show has made its point, and into something more grating and annoying. JK’s supposed to be annoying, but I don’t need all of JK’s scenes to be annoying. It makes Gen look a little too naive to be believable, and it’s just not fun to watch play out. JK is performatively awful in this story, but he also makes his scenes awful to watch.

I know you'd likely support Gentaro not making friends with JK, but though JK may seem annoying (particularly at the end), JK should be just another difficult challenge Gentaro overcomes to make friends with, so I feel Gentaro's being rather cold for no reason at the beginning, which Yuki also said he rather changed. I can feel Gentaro also conditionally accepted JK as a friend here due to viewing what he can do like making many friends in the party or bringing him girls. I know JK was shown to be slimy at the end, but previously, I feel JK was being annoying in the same way as Kotaro in Blade to Kenzaki at the start of the series. JK's behavior that time also reminds me of Ryutaros or Ryotaro possessed by it. And yeah, if JK wants Gentaro to protect him from Zodiart, no need to manipulate him (of which, this can be also about Gentaro being cold for no reason albeit it'd be what you agree with), or sabotage his fighting, but I don't think JK wants Gentaro to protect him from the Zodiart by this.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

I know you'd likely support Gentaro not making friends with JK, but though JK may seem annoying (particularly at the end), JK should be just another difficult challenge Gentaro overcomes to make friends with, so I feel Gentaro's being rather cold for no reason at the beginning, which Yuki also said he rather changed. I can feel Gentaro also conditionally accepted JK as a friend here due to viewing what he can do like making many friends in the party or bringing him girls. I know JK was shown to be slimy at the end, but previously, I feel JK was being annoying in the same way as Kotaro in Blade to Kenzaki at the start of the series. JK's behavior that time also reminds me of Ryutaros or Ryotaro possessed by it. And yeah, if JK wants Gentaro to protect him from Zodiart, no need to manipulate him (of which, this can be also about Gentaro being cold for no reason albeit it'd be what you agree with), or sabotage his fighting, but I don't think JK wants Gentaro to protect him from the Zodiart by this.

I mean, it's not so much that JK was annoying, it's that he was manipulating Gentarou into a dangerous situation through his own cowardice. That's maybe not someone you want to bring into your life!

[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER FOURZE EPISODE 06 - “FULL BLOWN ELECTRIC ASSAULT”

It’s mildly commendable, the way this one follows the Miu route of refusing to rehabilitate the character, because friendships shouldn’t be about fixing someone, they should be about accepting people so they can find the more empathetic and happy versions of themselves. But JK’s awful here. He never really apologizes to Nitta, or shows any real contrition. He’s aware of all of his friendships being transactional and hollow, but his behavior at the end of the episode is… transactional and hollow. (He’s dragged into the KRC as a kind of community service -slash- rehabilitation program, which doesn’t say much about him forming any healthier bonds in the aftermath of nearly being monster-murdered after literally everyone he knows besides Gen would rather abandon him than risk themselves for his safety.) Where Miu’s story was about someone who looked awful being revealed to be confident and highly-motivated, with a genuine interest in other people standing on their own and reaching for their dreams, JK’s just a weird, selfish jerk who someone believes in now, despite all evidence to the contrary. It’s a story where Gen comes off as noble and compelling because JK isn’t worth the effort. That’s great for Gen, but sort of not great for the show.

I feel that this is about indirectly fixing other people by proving their view wrong. JK thinks that no friendships are genuine, not only about him, but also about the friends he made in the party that refuse to help him when he's captured. But Gentaro proves that there are friends who would help just because it's the right thing to do, so the likely most sympathetic case of JK is that, he has always been in fair-weather friend environment. I may feel that Gentaro's ideal can be stronger to be applied on someone that seems winning in JK about dog eat dog environment, rather than if it's done on someone who has been visibly a victim and resorts to taking advantage of others because others did it first (which may have the audience view them as innocent and only blame whole society/their so-called friends that time). I still feel that it's unknown why JK steals the Electric Switch, I don't know about the purpose. I think friendships are also about understanding each other, even though they seem awful from the outside, I want a discussion about the reason why JK chooses to steal Electric Switch, something that just seems like a worthless toy to him, which should be what can repair their relationship better by understanding each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

(Honestly, after this episode, it feels like Nitta’s the one who should’ve joined the KRC? Nitta’s story is him being manipulated and betrayed by someone he thought was his friend. What better person to bring into the KRC, to show them that friendships still matter? Also, man, JK’s story here is him stealing the Elec Switch, and Gen going I Don’t Know I Guess Sometimes Friends Steal From You – is this a guy Kengo wants around all of his dad’s stuff?!)

I feel that so far it's a pattern in Fourze that the monster of the weeks are someone who got screwed over by the part of the main cast, not only JK to Nitta, but also Miura to Shun before. Though Miu's a subversion that it can be thought that Miu was screwing over Tamae like Shun to Miura, but actually it's just Tamae's jealousy. Dunno if this is also important to challenge the biases of people who may downplay what the main characters do (other than JK, here, at least in this thread), but exaggerate what the people outside of the main friend's circle do, which, I think should be the real test of Gentaro in making friendship, of which it's good that Gentaro still tries to extend friendship to Miura, Tamae, and Nitta here. I wonder though if JK joining KRC was about JK owing Gentaro for helping him despite betraying him, so JK was forced by Gentaro to do labors he doesn't like (also, JK is good at keeping valuables on his hands, as said before). Sorry to bring up about other series, but I feel that nothing beats something like Kuroto working together with the CR in Ex-Aid about having an awful person teaming up with the heroes (not the MC forcing, but Poppy does bring him in).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

This arc might be the weakest of the introductions, as it establishes JK as this problematic dude who might betray you if you give him the chance, yet all of his most deplorable traits pretty much disappear after this. On my first watch, I thought it was simply another great win for Gentarou, but like, that was a long time ago, before I could really understand Nitta's perspective.

Then again, as I said above, Gentaro doesn't distinguish between the main circle of friends and the other nobodies around, which actually passes his vow of treating everyone as a friend. Gentaro didn't only stop Nitta from beating up JK, but he also stops JK from beating up Nitta when he lost and pointed out that JK did deserve it.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Maybe that makes me sound a little cynical, which I don't want to be, but there are surely people similar to JK who even after learning right from wrong will continue to do wrong to their friends if it benefits them in the short term. Seeing Gentarou go so far for this guy (saving his life is a given of course) after learning how many times he's conned people is harder to accept now and it seems like the show was afraid to show the danger of bringing a wildcard like JK in to the KRC, or rather it couldn't do that without contrasting too hard with the friendship theme. Fortunately, JK is genuinely redeemed here, so I guess we can move on.

Which can be why that those who're trying to redeem actual villains are complained about. I mean, other than people like JK who can be more realistic, wouldn't this also apply to those villains who may be more enjoyable to the audience as their crimes feel more fictional (or to you, to also know more about them inside that makes you have more positive view on them)? And it'd not only personally harm the hero, but villains would endanger many people by pulling this. Like for instance, cases like Sougo to Heure, Aruto to Horobi, or Shoma to Rakia can easily end up with them being betrayed, possibly killed, and have the villain still endanger others without being stopped? Not happened, but a possibility that would always happen against anyone unlikable.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

I feel that so far it's a pattern in Fourze that the monster of the weeks are someone who got screwed over by the part of the main cast, not only JK to Nitta, but also Miura to Shun before.

It's definitely a pattern for the first 10 episodes, because that's how we get introduced to the cast!