[GuardianAngel87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

If you want, then why not taste?

Admittedly, from what little I have seen of Gavv so far (already up to episode 3), I am already liking Shouma as the show's lead hero. I am also enjoying what I am seeing so far on Kamen Rider Revice on which I am already up to episode 5 especially the dynamic between Ikki and Vice.

[Kiwami]

"Kamen Rider The Winter Movie: Gotchard & Geats Strongest Chemy★Great Gotcha Operation"

I randomly remembered I hadn’t seen this movie yet, but kind of wanted to just for the Fubuki VA gig. And I do like Geats, so there's that, but...

Man, I really, really can't stand the Gotchard cast, even almost 2 years later. They are so irritatingly annoying. The ever present dumb antics, the constant screaming of "Gotcha-Boy" - dear lord. I feel like I lost more brain cells watching this than were used to write and direct these characters.

Anyways, the story is super basic, like these two sets of shows just exist in the same world no questions asked? Yup, here we are. There’s enemies, fight them! Here’s a quest for you to solve. Quest’s over, well done, goodbye!

I know they want to have pre-school kids in the cinema, I know that’s the target audience to begin with, but neither Geats’ nor, and I can’t believe I’m saying this; Gotchard’s main shows are so bluntly simple.

Action wasn’t anything to write home about either, especially given how awesome Geats was in that regard, in fact I noticed one scene, were a Rider was shooting their weapon into a general direction, but there was neither an enemy there nor did they bother to animate a shot coming out of the weapon, It looked quite weird.

The highlight was Valvarad acting like a slasher movie villain for a second, unexpected but surprisingly fitting.

The one saving grace of this movie, or two depending on how you want to look at it, are the Rider Chemies. They are so dumb, I love them. They use little puppet plushies for most of their scenes, except the Geats Chemy ("Hi Friends!") which has a 3D model sometimes, although I prefer the puppet. There are scenes were they just have these toys sitting around idle, they do nothing, just sit around chilling. That is so Toku, they trick your simple brain into believing these little critters can move so when they are just there doing nothing you don’t even question it anymore.

And yeah, the Geats Chemy rules. Not only because of the voice work, but also because, well – how the heck did I never get spoiled on its backstory? Ace had a cute dog in the past, Constantine, nicknamed "Con" (heh) who died in a car accident, but couldn’t leave Ace behind to move into afterlife so their soul followed him around, the freak situation which turned the other Geats Riders into Chemies also hit that soul so it became a VTuber, I mean a Chemy, of course.

Heck, the story starts with the scene of the dog dying, I forgot all about it because the movie was a drag to sit through so when this plot came back at the very end I was genuinely surprised. And well, I’m a big old softie when animals are involved so this got me good.

This winter movie also marks the first appearance of Kamen Rider Majade, who should’ve been the main Rider of the season anyhow, I will never let go of that thought. It was cool. Like, I’m not a fan of doing this kind of debut when the show has to essentially repeat it to not confuse viewers, but seeing her kick ass again was neat.

Overall the film was quite boring and not very well done, could’ve done without watching it to be honest, I did love seeing the weird Rider Chemies however. But now Houtaro is in my head once more and I can hear him scream "Gotcha!" again, please no, make it stop.

[GuardianAngel87]

After weeks, if not months, of being stalled, I have finally continued right where I left off on the original Kamen Rider series and I am already about to be five episodes away from reaching the show's halfway point. Getting through this series unfortunately really does take forever.

[Locke]

Almost finished my watch through of Gavv, might post longer thoughts when I get to the end. My overall thoughts some five episodes away from the end is Gavv at it’s best is some of the best Rider around, genuinely, but I just think the show is overall just kind of a mess.

And maybe not in the way other Rider shows are a mess. I just think the show lacks a clear focus and a driving engine, but is able to convince you for like half the show that it actually does have a focus and an engine, right up until the point where it needs to actually start paying things off and the reality that the show has kinda been going nowhere the whole time becomes suddenly super apparent.

There are far worse offenders in this regard in other shows, but it almost hurts more here cause I really loved Gavv during the first half, and even during its messiest moments in the back half I still think the show is pretty wonderful, I just maybe wish they gave the writing room a few more draft attempts before shooting.

The main reason for checking in though is I finished watching the Gavv Summer Movie and I thought it was super fun. Kinda felt like a bit of a filler episode rather than like a proper movie, but it was fun to get all the cast back together (they are really what make Gavv for me, such a loveable bunch of characters with such tangible chemistry, they manage to put that on full display here, if only briefly) and play through a what if scenario, while retaining so much of the wonderful queer-coding of the main show and introducing us to Zeztz.

While it doesn't have really any higher production values than a standard episode really in terms of pure production quality (and it seems like all the new Riders / forms are just reused parts of existing suits from the main series), it balances that out in the scope and scale of the action scenes.

Honestly, just as an aside, and I know this has a lot more like filmic language and choreography baked into it compared to a standard episode. But even like taking a standard episode of Gavv, I have also gone back and started watching Drive again which I am pretty sure was one of the final shows for me before my Toku candle went out and I kinda fell off actively following every series. And like maybe from a pure production quality standpoint things haven't moved as much as you would have maybe wanted, but shows like Gavv and Zeztz show we really have come a long way when it comes to the superhero stuff in a Rider show.

I’m still early into Drive, so it might change, but right now, every fight scene is just dudes standing still cranking plastic crap, while their Drivers shout Engrish and fire CG bullshit at each other. Like I am so close to falling off of Drive again because I think the actual Rider stuff is the worst part of the show, it is just so boring.

I feel like shows like Gavv and Zeztz have done such great work in fleshing out action scenes and making them interesting in the moment to moment, not just flashy poorly disguised toy commercials (even though I know that is what they are all in cases, you don’t have to be blatant about it).

The scene of the Stomach Family all fighting shoulder to shoulder had to get the biggest pop from me though. Even if it was only brief, I still feel like this movie uses them better than the actual show does!

I also liked how it leaned into the body horror stuff from Gavv, one of the many meander to nowhere storylines in Gavv is the body horror stuff, and I do think it was a shame they never really committed to it fully. But it comes back in full force here, and is pretty gruesome as well.

If I were to have any real complaints over the film, it is probably running time. I think the film is fine as is, but I couldn’t help but wonder how special this might have been had we had more breathing room to play out more of the what-if scenarios, to spend more time on the relationship between Shouma and Taorin and to give the villains proper motivations. Again, I don’t think it ultimately matters because I think the film is pretty great as is, but that doesn’t mean I can’t want it to have been even better.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

I?m still early into Drive, so it might change, but right now, every fight scene is just dudes standing still cranking plastic crap, while their Drivers shout Engrish and fire CG bullshit at each other. Like I am so close to falling off of Drive again because I think the actual Rider stuff is the worst part of the show, it is just so boring.

I feel like shows like Gavv and Zeztz have done such great work in fleshing out action scenes and making them interesting in the moment to moment, not just flashy poorly disguised toy commercials (even though I know that is what they are all in cases, you don?t have to be blatant about it).

Well, I understand that Heisei shows are largely viewed more positively due to nostalgia, and there's certainly something to criticize about them. But still, there was Wizard, with its absolutely stunning fight choreography. Although, as for Drive, I remember its action scenes mostly for the emotional intensity, not the spectacular fights. And, well, for the inventive effects, like Jackpot.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Well, I understand that Heisei shows are largely viewed more positively due to nostalgia, and there's certainly something to criticize about them. But still, there was Wizard, with its absolutely stunning fight choreography. Although, as for Drive, I remember its action scenes mostly for the emotional intensity, not the spectacular fights. And, well, for the inventive effects, like Jackpot.

Wizard was one of my favourite shows back in the day, and I recognise sentiment had shifted in my time away, but back in those days Wizard was not looked upon kindly.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Almost finished my watch through of Gavv, might post longer thoughts when I get to the end. My overall thoughts some five episodes away from the end is Gavv at it?s best is some of the best Rider around, genuinely, but I just think the show is overall just kind of a mess.

And maybe not in the way other Rider shows are a mess. I just think the show lacks a clear focus and a driving engine, but is able to convince you for like half the show that it actually does have a focus and an engine, right up until the point where it needs to actually start paying things off and the reality that the show has kinda been going nowhere the whole time becomes suddenly super apparent.

There are far worse offenders in this regard in other shows, but it almost hurts more here cause I really loved Gavv during the first half, and even during its messiest moments in the back half I still think the show is pretty wonderful, I just maybe wish they gave the writing room a few more draft attempts before shooting.

I totally agree! The first half of Gavv was awesome, when it was fully committed to all the ChocoGummy drama. After that it became more focused on the Granute society, which only emphasized Komura's villain problem as the Stomach villains are directly connected to Shouma and yet resist every chance to admit they've done wrong, except for Nyelve who wants to prove the value of intelligence in a system that values power instead. Shouma, Hanto and Lakia continued to get their own developments, which were still good, but they were often detached from each other, in a show that once stood out for connections.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Although, as for Drive, I remember its action scenes mostly for the emotional intensity, not the spectacular fights. And, well, for the inventive effects, like Jackpot.

I'd say Drive did have some spectacular fights as well though. Like, I understand it's common for the first and last few episodes of a season to have exceptionally high quality action, but the premiere with all the Tire Koukans and the rebounding Tridoron kick was pretty memorable for me, as well as the debut fights of Deadheat Burst Mach and Drive Type Tridoron! Perhaps also since it came after Gaim, which weirdly scattered many of its best action scenes throughout the middle instead.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I'd say Drive did have some spectacular fights as well though. Like, I understand it's common for the first and last few episodes of a season to have exceptionally high quality action, but the premiere with all the Tire Koukans and the rebounding Tridoron kick was pretty memorable for me, as well as the debut fights of Deadheat Burst Mach and Drive Type Tridoron! Perhaps also since it came after Gaim, which weirdly scattered many of its best action scenes throughout the middle instead.

Exactly! The Drive finishers are some of my favorites. It's weird I nоt thought of them myself.

[Locke]

Final thoughts now I have completed Gavv. Sorry if this is a little long, once I get going it is hard to stop!

As I said before, to me, Gavv lacks a clear focus and a driving engine, but you'll love these characters so much and be so engaged within their arcs, that you won't notice at first how static the world is around them. It is only really in the back half of the show, where the world now also needs to shift into gear, arcs need to start culminating and threads need to start paying off that it becomes so obvious the show has kinda been going largely nowhere this whole time.

There are far worse offenders in this regard in other shows, but it almost hurts more here cause I really loved Gavv during the first half, and even during its messiest moments in the back half I still think the show is pretty wonderful, I just wish they gave the writing room a few more draft attempts before shooting.

The first half in a lot of ways is a fairly a-typical Rider show, that once again does the ‘oh we may look silly on the surface, but this is actually a really dark story!’ thing. But thanks to the core cast of loveable characters and the tangible chemistry they share, the show just sings. There is this intangible magic to everything, break it down to its base parts and I am sure you could be critical of plenty, but there is something about the whole here, and how that whole is executed. There is just this energy, this joy, to everything that is hard to define, but you can just feel the love that went into this show radiating out of every part of this.

I loved the show’s primary message about recognising that being who you are should not be seen as something forbidden and happiness is about finding others who will love you for who you really are, flaws, secrets, mistakes and all. This show got me legit tearing up quite a few times, it is so far beyond the sort of shounen cheesy melodrama we see in lesser Rider shows.

In lesser hands, this show’s overriding message may have devolved into a lazy 'traditionalism vs. liberalism' narrative, but this notion is shattered quickly by the fact the cold, corporate Granuto world accepts Jeebh’s fluid approach to gender identity without question.

Identity does not mean value. Like what a crazy, powerful, message that is. And one that the villains believe in as much as anyone else.

In fact, more than anyone, it is one of our heroes in Hanto who has to let go of the most internalised prejudice. Watching his relationship grow with Shouma, and in turn Rakia, it is just so good man. Such special stuff.

The whole show operates in a refreshing grey area when it comes to its themes and conversations. If the show is going to take you somewhere, it is going to have something to say. We aren’t just pointing at problems here.

It tackles all sorts of things like arranged marriage, class divides, the cycle of violence (and maybe more vitally, the cost required to break it), addiction and the need to impress our parents at the expense of our own lives and happiness (which probably hits home harder for Japanese audiences than it does almost anywhere else).

But yeah. The pacing. It doesn't ruin the show but it isn't... good. And again, I have seen much worse in other shows, but I still think it is bad enough here to talk about it. Cause and effect was seemingly not given nearly enough thought during the development phase and it hurts the final leg of this as it seems more focused on trying to land the plane, than really to truly deliver anything all that great.

It is like the back half of the show focuses on all of the wrong things, so many interesting plotlines are set up, and if not fully abandoned, they disappear for massive chunks of the show, so the show can just introduce more and more stuff, constantly delaying paying off the stuff we really care about, until it practically runs out of time and lands on a sort of half ending.

I also think the villains are the biggest weakness of this show, but a big part of this is again a pacing problem. For how important they are to the actual story, and for how personal each member of the Stomach Family is to our core cast, they simply spend far too much of the show in the background doing not a lot, and flame out far too quickly when the show decides to finally utilise them.

This approach is fine if you are some faceless corpo style villain who is doing shadowy things in the background, building to that inevitable showdown down the road, but these villains aren’t strangers to our protagonists, they are core to the story, but aren’t used like they are and I just think it is a waste.

I just wish we could have learnt more about the Stomach Family, and seen them play a more active role in the show, working together. I wish we could have learned really anything about the Granuto world, beyond the vaguest hints. I wish I could understand why the Suga (and Zombie Suga), Bitter Clones and the Hunty body modification arcs existed at all, since they take up a huge amount of the show’s running time, and could practically all be removed and nothing about the show would change. Well in fact, the show would get better if they did this, because then it would give them room to pay off things that actually matter.

But honestly, in the end, all I know is this show brought me such happiness. And now the show is over, I feel a hole in my heart where this show used to be. It fills me with such bittersweet sadness to know I will never get to experience any new stories with these characters again, but I feel so grateful to have ever gotten to spend time with these characters at all.

If that doesn’t show how much I loved this show, I am not sure what else will. And wouldn't it be me betraying the hopeful core message of Gavv to shun it for it's flaws, rather than embrace it in all of it's beautiful messiness?