[Frontier]

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Originally Posted by Locke

I assume the final ramp up will be an all out battle with Code and whatever Code Somnia is. And they have absolutely bought my trust in seeing where exactly this all goes from here. But I won't ever forget the overwhelming blandness of how this show started, and won't just assume it'll be all rainbows just cause the show got significantly better over the last block of episodes. But I am hopeful the show remains like this, of course.

I feel like they're going to fight CODE now but once they're defeated the Gore Nightmares will be the Final Bosses.

[ThirstMcGurst]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frontier

I feel like they're going to fight CODE now but once they're defeated the Gore Nightmares will be the Final Bosses.

I can see that happening.

So, Baku inceptioned the hell out of Seig, learning that he was a dream assassin. And I loved when he thought he defeated Zeztz until he hit him with a , "Hmmm. That lamp looks odd...." (shout out to reddit).

Can't wait to see what the rest of the series leads to. Does this season get 40 episodes, or a bit more?

Edit: Actually, the first half of Zeztz was more of the lamp story. But still, seeing Seig realizing that it was all a dream (no Notorious B.I.G) before getting molly whopped was awesome.

[Fish Sandwich]

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Originally Posted by Frontier

I think it was just doubling down on Sieg as a dark twist on Baku.

Yeah, I don't want to make it sound like I think the problem is that there wasn't anything at all going on there. The episode left me with this sense of "maybe there should be more?", but just what the episode *did* do with those two characters, I did like a lot about it. It's especially well-observed that Sieg's dream killing sprees play out like Seven's big shootout in the premiere. And if that sounds like just a happy coincidence to anyone, I'll also point out how the episode gives us that epic gun duel right before the flashbacks which pretty obviously emphasizes how Baku and Sieg are mirror images of one another. It's that very ZEZTZ thing of just sort of letting the images themselves do a lot of the talking.

That being said, there is an exchange from episode 19 I think back to a lot that helps explain another thing I like about the way the episode compares and contrasts them:




Back at the end of last year, I framed my journey of understanding ZEZTZ as the journey to understand what specifically dreams actually mean to it. I don't think I have a definitive enough answer yet to give any final statement on that, but I think these last two episodes do a lot to support something I've been thinking for a while now -- that the answer will have a lot to do with how important the phrase "good morning" is to this show.

Possibly the single most brilliant thing about Sieg is his fashion sense? The fact that he's straight up wearing pajamas 24/7 suggests so much about his character, and how he's not only an anti-Baku, but even a sort of anti-Odaka too. NOX's outfit has the chains and the ring to suggest a prisoner of dreams struggling to return to a world of truth, but Sieg relishes in the freedom and control that he finds by escaping reality. The empowerment Sieg gets from dreaming might seem at a glance to be something he has in common with Baku, but I think as the hero, Baku represents a balance that neither Odaka or especially Sieg has been able to grasp.



I think to Baku, dreams only have a purpose because we wake up from them. There's a real consistency to that throughout much of the show, which makes it fitting his tragic lowest point was when he tried to convince himself he could be Seven all the time. Because in light of how clear this episode makes it that Sieg actively gave up his life in the waking world to live in an eternal slumber, it's more apparent than ever why Catastrom's debut made him feel drawn to ZEZTZ.

But ultimately, Baku doesn't actually want to reject reality. He believes so strongly in dreams because he also believes we get to take those dreams with us after we open our eyes. That they can help us to face reality, instead. To reassure us when we need it most, and to motivate ourselves to reach greater heights than we otherwise would. These last two episodes especially, by being willing to risk bleeding over into Zero-One's territory by specifically drawing that connection between inspiration and creation, they demonstrated that last point phenomenally. We're shown in 33 how being able to conceive of things that don't exist is a basic prerequisite to make something new that does, and Baku rising to that challenge helps emphasize how stagnant and empty Sieg's entire worldview is when they're facing each other in 34.

Despite my griping with the conclusion, I do think it was a really solid two-parter, especially taken *as* a whole, even if there's that bit in the middle that kinda steals the show for me. Like any good final form debut in Rider, it really gets at the raw essence of the series all throughout. Who knows? Maybe by the end of the show, I'll have thought back to Baku's words of encouragement to Nem here just as often as I have with 19.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenXtreme

I was thinking about this recently: Yuuya Takahashi loves having discrete arcs in his shows, to a degree far greater than other tokusatsu writers.

I remember thinking after Ex-Aid that being like, The King of Structure was definitely Takahashi's defining feature as a writer. In that show, there's a lot of little bits of considered dialogue and scenes and plot points that are rich with foreshadowing and parallels and contrasts and whatnot that make it clear in retrospect he's either always thinking forward as he writes, or at least always thinking backwards to what he's already written, and how he can make it all feel holistic as one huge narrative. It's a very organized show. I think that's a huge reason it tends to resonate so strongly with the tastes of so many modern viewers, who are often trained to rate stories based on their logical construction above all else.

To perhaps varying degrees, you can see that in all his other Riders too, including this one , and I think the more negative read on it connects to something you've expressed before about his characters feeling more like tools for the plot than people allowed to exist naturally in a world, the way writers like Inoue or Kobayashi will often just let their casts dictate the rhythm of both the smaller stories and especially the longer series arcs. I don't exactly agree with that assessment, but I do see a fundamental difference there in how Takahashi writes these shows that makes it easy to understand how someone could end up looking at it that way.

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Originally Posted by alanch90

How about Orderm

On the other hand, as I praise Takahashi's attention to detail when it comes to structure, I do think it's kind of insane we didn't get to see whether or not Orderm even has its own transformation pose before we saw Exdream's? Obviously that's not even the only thing questionable about the placement of these debuts (was actually quite sad to see even the opening jumping right over Orderm here!), but that's honestly the one that upsets me the most. After this show made it such a point to give each form a distinct pose, it feels sinful to have the grand payoff come before we've actually seen them all. Even if we do see it later, it'd be like if Plasma debuted before we saw the Paradigm pose or something -- just plain wrong!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

...

The night can't last forever, DreamSword.

[Frontier]

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

On the other hand, as I praise Takahashi's attention to detail when it comes to structure, I do think it's kind of insane we didn't get to see whether or not Orderm even has its own transformation pose before we saw Exdream's? Obviously that's not even the only thing questionable about the placement of these debuts (was actually quite sad to see even the opening jumping right over Orderm here!), but that's honestly the one that upsets me the most. After this show made it such a point to give each form a distinct pose, it feels sinful to have the grand payoff come before we've actually seen them all. Even if we do see it later, it'd be like if Plasma debuted before we saw the Paradigm pose or something -- just plain wrong!

I think Orderm by it's very nature couldn't really have a transformation pose since it could ultimately only come out via Catastrom.

Functionally now it basically feels like the Shining Hopper to ExDream's Shining Assault Hopper.