[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

Not sure if I'll pop in for the Phase 2 threads purely because I don't feel the need to revisit Phase 2 Heisei anytime soon. I'll look forward to potentially chiming in on your other threads however!

I will take what I can get! Thanks!

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER JUUGA VS KAMEN RIDER ORTECA - EPISODE 1

That feels like an insane question to ask after months of writing about Revice, and in one of the final posts for this thread, but: Seriously, it’s not “Olteca”? All of my subs have said “Olteca”, and I swear that’s what they’ve been calling that guy for episodes and episodes. Except, clear as day on the title screen for this episode, it’s “Kamen Rider Orteca”.

I honestly don’t know what to do with that. I don’t want to say it’s all I could focus on in this episode, but it pretty much was. I’m just gonna call him “Olteca”, to keep my brain from hurting quite so much. Let’s move on!

Yeah it's Orteca, so late for the official sub to be revealed. Though there's a funny sub that calls him...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I haven’t been able to care a lot about the emotional journey of George Karizaki, and thankfully this miniseries doesn’t seem to, either. It’s very much George in his initial mode of Kamen Rider Super Fan – like, an enthusiastic fan of Kamen Riders; also, a fan of Super-1 – rather than anything too tortured or layered. He’s back to trying to make his Daddy proud via mad science, and he’s having a great time with it. It’s not… it’s not a story with any real deep insights into George’s character, so much as it’s a quick run through of his motivations and immediate goals. He wants to make Kamen Riders look cool, and a recently escaped Olteca is standing in his way.

Well I guess this is the actual combination of George's Kamen Rider fanboy self in the beginning, and also him being actually moral to help others later. With him retaining his Kamen Rider fanboy traits now, I now even question where did it came from, before I thought Chic was what made him Kamen Rider fanboy that also disregards others' lives for his own ends, cuz he had the irony of being a Kamen Rider fan, yet is an atrocious person, which I thought this inconsistency can be caused by Chic who is acting on his body.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The Olteca side of things is as surface-level as the Juuga side: Olteca’s been sprung from prison, Neo Deadmans, Demons Driver, whatever. It’s Olteca going through the motions, and it’s a shame that after all this time, no one could quite come up with a deeper look into his psychology than Smirking Sociopath. He’s a familiar face to fight Juuga, and that’s about it.

I wonder what deeper look into his psychology that you expect. I wouldn't want for him to get a depth that depicts him in a more positive/sympathetic light, like expecting him to get redeemed and forgiven easily or such, was worried too when he was given a tragic backstory. As usual though, he can win over people due to his charisma like Rinna and some of the Neo Deadman members.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It’s saying something about how flimsy and inessential this story felt that the best, most memorable part is Rinna from Drive talking about her dissolved relationship with the eternally embarrassing Otta. In a wacky episode where nothing feels especially tethered to reality (I love Olteca, an escaped prisoner on his way to commit crimes, just walking past George), Rinna cartoonishly destroying pictures of Otta is both an episode highlight and lowlight. It’s goofy fun, but it has nothing at all to do with George or Olteca, and it eats up time that’s maybe better spent on addressing the title characters.

I gotta watch Drive to get more correct assumption of Rinna, but I guess she gives me the impression of Enokida from Kuuga regarding her science talk here, but ofc her destroying pictures of Otta is something different. I guess regardless of her using any means to destroy it... she doesn't resort to stomping those pictures underfoot like a doormat for her shoes.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

I wonder what deeper look into his psychology that you expect. I wouldn't want for him to get a depth that depicts him in a more positive/sympathetic light, like expecting him to get redeemed and forgiven easily or such, was worried too when he was given a tragic backstory. As usual though, he can win over people due to his charisma like Rinna and some of the Neo Deadman members.

I don't really know what I'd expect them to with Orteca in this special to broaden his appeal with me? He's not a guy I've thought about enough to care what his motivation might be or what he'd do in the aftermath of Giff's defeat. Which, I guess, that would be where I'd point: Make me care enough about this guy to wonder what he'll do next.

And as for his charisma recruiting Neo Deadmans... see Episode 2 for how much that was because of Orteca!

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER JUUGA VS KAMEN RIDER ORTECA - EPISODE 2

This episode tries very hard to create one, though. God, does it ever. Between the Epic Duel at the climax of the episode, and the Frenemy song that soundtracks it, and the whole We?re Destined To Do This Forever capper, there?s an overabundance of work to make Juuga/Orteca either the next Superman/Luthor, or maybe just Daiji/Kagerou. The end of this episode really only works if you see George and Orteca as reflections of each other, fated to fight against the person who knows them best.

I guess people like Layton already explained well between their rivalry and I think it's worth considering. Otherwise, seems that while George is firmly being good, like objecting to science being used to trample humanity, he still has some darkness remaining, with him sorta doing some pay evil unto evil by twisting the knife further on Sho Takada's issues, of him wanting to be acknowledged, and to Orteca as well for making him more miserable by showing the Drive couple's love. He also seems to make light of Orteca's rampage and breakout later due to Juuga.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I just? no? No, that all seems like an invention of this two-parter, not something that is the realization of longform storytelling. Like, Orteca vs Over Demons? Sure! Best scene in this episode is Tamaki confronting Orteca at a department store, and sort of laughing at Orteca?s inability to grow or change in any interesting way. Them two having a blow-off to Orteca?s lazy villainy and Tamaki?s eventual heroism? That would be a hilarious and affecting idea for a TTFC. This is? I mean, it?s funny, but it never really got me to feel anything.

I'd be relieved that Orteca is shown to be unable to grow or change, because my worry was about him getting his redemption with this special, in general when he was brought back instead of dying at Giff's hands. Otherwise, Tamaki's grudge on Orteca seems to be softened here, with Tamaki, after declaring main Rider's phrase of protecting smiles, immediately throws hands to Orteca when they meet again before.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It is cute and funny, though, in a minor way. The various Drive references; the reveal that Otta?s secret girlfriend is just a perpetually needy Hiromi; Hana creating the Neo Deadmans just to humiliate Orteca; the series-long recurring gag of Daddy creating utterly preventable problems for everyone but him, and our heroes having to put a positive spin on it anyway. It?s not hysterical, but it?s reasonably fun.

So this'd be the reason of Orteca "winning" over people with his charms of being set up by Aguilera, or Sho Takada actually wanting to use him as a pawn, but ofc it backfires with Orteca being a sociopath thus not a reliable ally that can backstab you. He wins over Rinna regardless, and Rinna also seems to be more concerned about her work's capability in the battle between Orteca and Juuga, rather than Makoto being an evil bastard that can use it for bad. Their showdown feels weak, for a Rider meant to surpass something like Ultimate Kuuga...

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

I'd be relieved that Orteca is shown to be unable to grow or change, because my worry was about him getting his redemption with this special, in general when he was brought back instead of dying at Giff's hands. Otherwise, Tamaki's grudge on Orteca seems to be softened here, with Tamaki, after declaring main Rider's phrase of protecting smiles, immediately throws hands to Orteca when they meet again before.

Yeah, but I feel like there are stories that'd grow Orteca beyond just a redemption arc. What if he got more evil, or fell for another character, or had to get a day job, or or or. Villain Becomes Hero is just one of many options.

Also, I imagine finding out Orteca got his ass kicked would make plenty of people smile, so Tamaki's honoring his vow!

[wentwood]

I saw episode 1 on you tube but that was it so far.

[DreamSword]

Hey there!

So, this thread made for a big milestone in terms of both Watch Threads and Die himself, so I decided to do a little something to celebrate.

Die, Androzani, GrandComplete, En-chan, and myself all got together to talk about Die's' threads, our experience with Kamen Rider as a whole, fun memories around the boards, and... Kamen Rider Butts??

It was a fun time, and if you wanna listen in on the conversation that we recorded, you can download a copy of the podcast by clicking HERE. It's a little over an hour long.

As for myself, while I'm certain that I serve as little more than the annoying "rival" of the guy who popularized Watch Threads around the board, even I won't deny how big of an impact they had in terms of getting people to look back on these older entries in Kamen Rider, as well as the absolutely fun time I had with most of the threads that I participated in.

Sure there were some bumps here and there, but overall it made for one heck of a ride over these past four years, and only contributed to me liking and sticking with this little community that I joined a few years back. Hopefully when the revisits happen at the start of next year, I can think of fun ways to contribute to most of those planned threads, especially whatever Power Rangers show Die decides that he wants to check out.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

As for myself, while I'm certain that I serve as little more than the annoying "rival" of the guy who popularized Watch Threads around the board, even I won't deny how big of an impact they had in terms of getting people to look back on these older entries in Kamen Rider, as well as the absolutely fun I had with most of the threads that I participated in.

You're very kind, and I super appreciate the invitation to chat with y'all about this fun/weird experience. It's been a great source of enjoyment these last few years, and I hope it continues to be a good time as the next phase kicks off in 2024!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

Sure there were some bumps here and there, but overall it made for one heck of a ride over these past four years, and only contributed to me liking and sticking with this little community that I joined a few years back.

Honestly, the only real regret I have was whoever did the Ryuki part of the Decade thread; they're a source of non-stop anger, and I apologize to the community for their involvement.

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Honestly, the only real regret I have was whoever did the Ryuki part of the Decade thread; they're a source of non-stop anger, and I apologize to the community for their involvement.

Oh man, yeah, that guy. I've only talked to him a few times, but apparently he somehow thinks he's the only fan of Power Rangers? Like, everybody knows that no one likes that franchise period. Glad you kicked him out. Easily the weakest of the special guests you've had.

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER MAJADE WITH GIRLS REMIX



I spent a whole lot of this special thinking it was fun, but not really about anything. Where the previous three-part Girls Remix story really grounded itself in the formation of the team, and how that gave a disparate group of boy-adjacent characters and stories a place to let female perspectives find connection and fellowship, this one takes as given the existence of female internality and objectives, letting the special just sort of be a really solid one-off adventure for Legend Ladies across the last 16 or so years of Kamen Rider. There are way worse reasons to make a TTFC special, and I’m happy enough with the more nostalgia-bait intentions of a Girls Remix reunion/expansion. The new characters are a delight, even if I really miss some of the inaugural cast (Poppy!!!), and their usage overall felt fresh and dynamic. It’s a fun little chase story, punched up by frequent battles both in and out of costumes.

(Like, I pretty much just assume that Sakamoto filmed a fight between Marika and Nozomi, and then figured out a story that could be told around it. That fight alone is worth the price of admission, and sort of validated as many of these Girls Remix projects as Sakamoto can talk Toei into.)

But then we get into the reveal that Marika’s a resurrected cyborg or whatever, and where I’d normally feel robbed of a chance to really interrogate that character’s problematic history because she isn’t really her anymore, I think the fact that some lunatic brought her back to support someone else’s story is kind of the perfect adversary for these women? Marika is their weird boy-adjacent backgrounds run amuck, weaponized into zealotry and fawning worship. The little scene in the middle where Reika swoons over her brother and Rinne beams over her dad… like, that’s just the diluted version of Marika’s nonsense! There's kind of no reason for them to just randomly go Aren't The Men In Our Lives Great one scene after meeting each other, unless it's to kill Alison Bechdel's friend stone dead. The way those two characters reflexively elevate the men in their lives is kind of the starting point of valuing the men's success more than their own, which is Marika's entire existence. Marika is a character that exists to deify someone else – anyone else, judging by every usage of her for all of media – at the cost of her own narrative. Trying to defeat and/or rehabilitate a character like that is kind of the ideal mission for Girls Remix to undertake; Girls Remix is the helping hand Marika never got in life.

I don’t know if the rest of the special really lives up to that admittedly subjective interpretation of its conflict's thematic significance or thought-out storytelling. (It doesn't help that Marika is supporting a woman this time, despite all of the King talk.) Characters appear and disappear based on clearly budget and schedule reasons – Sophia nopes out after a couple scenes, Hana ditches half of the fight for nebulous reasons, and there’s zero story reason for Sachika to show up at the end. While it’s fun to see Chiharu from Zero-One back, despite apparently leaving her husband and changing her name, I don’t know that there’s enough here to really care about her weird-ass plot, but I’ll assume it’ll improve over subsequent episodes. (Too much left unresolved here! And was that a Wizard portal that sucked up the new Driver?) The million little continuity details and callbacks are nice – Akiko nodding towards Fuuto PI, Clotho getting name-checked, Sophia’s terrifying cooking getting a sound effect – but that’s the laziest part to ever compliment. It’s all fun and nostalgic, but it’s a little clunky for how it tries to create an adventure around that core.

Still… I sort of don’t mind a lot that there maybe isn’t an explicit Reason for these characters to be together, because Kamen Riders Help Each Other Out is the reason. The girls-only aspect is a neat marketing hook, but the storytelling isn’t obligated to foreground that. Where Girls Remix started as a refuge for overlooked women – and would’ve been a lifeline for someone like Marika – it’s okay if it’s evolved into just a club for heroes instead. Sometimes representation is just solid entertainment, you know?