[SanoBaron]

I think if you tried to make Fourze darker, you'd take away it's best aspect:

that it's fun.

[GoseiWonder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrixbeast

I think turning Fourze "Dark" would've been for the worst, anyway. A series about overcoming odds through the bonds you make just seems to be super lame when done too seriously and melodramatic.

Hence why even at its most serious, FiM (because I'm quoting Matrixbeast) never goes into to the "too serious" like a freaking Lifetime Drama. They aren't going to tackle Mrs. Cake's struggle with postpartum depression in Baby Cakes or something, that'd be insane for a kids show about technicolor magical horses learning about friendship. Similarly you aren't going to do something about the Scorpio Zodiart being a hazing victim with an abusive mother in a show about a Freshman with a stupid haircut becoming friends with the whole school and goofing around with a transforming McDonalds menu and a magical space belt with all kinds of goofy attactchemnets ranging from pogo-stick to a massive stamp.

These are kids shows. Arthur has had specials about cancer and post-disaster trauma and it's still at a level that isn't grim as fuck.

Have some fun once in a while. As Sentai said, you don't need everything to be Garo.

[Switchblade]

I honestly cannot think of a more inappropriate Rider show to grimdark-ify than Fourze. Not every Rider series has to be like Gaim.

[Guyver Spawn]

Kamen Rider is made for kids from 4-12. Doing a R rated show would be a bad idea since they try it with Shin back in 1992 and it failed. It seems like most fandoms want their own franchises to be dark and gritty. I see Power Rangers fans that want the series to be dark and gritty. I see Dragon Ball fans that want Super to be dark and gritty. I see some Transformers fans that want Transformers to be a R rated franchise.

People refuse to admit that they like something for kids. Besides most kids these days have good writing in them. I enjoy most kid shows then I have with most shows for adults in the last few years like Mr. Pickles, Duck Dynasty, Keeping Up with the Kardashians, Jersey Shore and China IL (I can't stand it. I know people like it, but I can never get into it).

[SanoBaron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

I honestly cannot think of a more inappropriate Rider show to grimdark-ify than Fourze. Not every Rider series has to be like Gaim.

gaim wasnt that dark for the most part anyway.

Agito was darker in more ways than Gaim.

[Guyver Spawn]

Gaim did start off rather campy and silly until later on. Most people watch Gaim to expect a show about dancing with a lots of bright campy looking colors everywhere. With Gaim, they can made a serious show that it can be enjoy by all ages.

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanoBaron

gaim wasnt that dark for the most part anyway.

Agito was darker in more ways than Gaim.

Gaim was very dark, but in a subtle, forboding way. You didn't realise how dark it was until the first big signs dropped, then you looked back and saw prevous events in a new light. As things came to light, so did the light fade from the show. The main characters became tainted as time went on, one by one drained of their heroics in different ways: Zangetsu nearly paid for it with his life, Baron was led astray by his own perspective of justice, Ryugen became an outright villain, and even Gaim was tainted by the sacrifice of others. Plus, the entire Helheim thign was absolutely a lose-lose senario. Though bittersweet as it was, this made the show gratifying when Gaim, the only one to never falter in his ideals, came out of top without having to compromise. The show had tragedy, betrayal, death, and suffering, but did so very maturely, with tact. It all served a narrative purpose and moved the story forward.

Agito was dark, but it was an over-the-top, immature dark. It was very juvinile, with gratuitous violence, nonsensical religious parallels, and a lack of emotion most common in works attempting to strike a dark chord, but are afraid having emotional characters and moments would make them "sissies." It's hard to take Agito himelf as a protagonist when he is so emotionally disconnected from everything. He wasn't a character, he was a prop. He hardly ever even acknowledges anything that happens when he's Agito. Gills is similar. G3 spends so much of the series in plain old ignorance he never as an on-point reaction to anything. There's not a single realistic emotional response to anything in that show. It was chock full of "edgy" and "mature" scenes of brutal death of innocents, but in doing so came across like an angstful teen writing his first "dark" fanfic. Plus, the pacing so God-damn awful whatever emotional impact was there was stretched so thin it was nearly imperceptable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guyver Spawn

Gaim did start off rather campy and silly until later on. Most people watch Gaim to expect a show about dancing with a lots of bright campy looking colors everywhere. With Gaim, they can made a serious show that it can be enjoy by all ages.

Yup. It almost pulled a fast one of us, pretending to be something it wasn't to lure us into a false expectation.

[SanoBaron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Agito was dark, but it was an over-the-top, immature dark. It was very juvinile, with gratuitous violence, nonsensical religious parallels, and a lack of emotion most common in works attempting to strike a dark chord, but are afraid having emotional characters and moments would make them "sissies." It's hard to take Agito himelf as a protagonist when he is so emotionally disconnected from everything. He wasn't a character, he was a prop. He hardly ever even acknowledges anything that happens when he's Agito. Gills is similar. G3 spends so much of the series in plain old ignorance he never as an on-point reaction to anything. There's not a single realistic emotional response to anything in that show. It was chock full of "edgy" and "mature" scenes of brutal death of innocents, but in doing so came across like an angstful teen writing his first "dark" fanfic. Plus, the pacing so God-damn awful whatever emotional impact was there was stretched so thin it was nearly imperceptable.

I think Agito was a good dark show because it went into things like what makes people human, what we can overcome as people, and how can you say that the characters weren't emotional? Shouichi had plenty of reactions to things, we see Hikawa's struggle for doing what he thinks is right, and with as much suffering as Ryo got, he never once whined about it. these weren't characters that were maturing into adults, they were ALREADY adults, but they each had their own problems and they dealt with them like adults. like, even that asshole Houjo got to act like a responsible adult when he turned in his mentor for murder. I liked Agito for the characters. I like Shouichi because he is always optimistic, y'know, like Godai, but Shouichi has his own problems and he deals with them in his own way, like eating a salad while his battle theme is playing.

also, I liked that Agito had it's own origin for it's world. having two overlords fighting each other and one ultimately giving the final blow after his defeat. I liked that humanity had the ability to one day become something no one could control, that was the whole point of the show. showing how people can overcome their hardships. also, there was only 1 time innocent bystanders would get killed, everyone else had the seed of Agito, and by the villain's rules, they have to die.

and don't get me wrong, I never said Gaim wasn't dark or that Gaim was bad, just that Agito had darker elements in more ways. I mean, nobody in Gaim commited suicide. or death by seaweed.

[barnstenchfartface]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Gaim was very dark, but in a subtle, forboding way. You didn't realise how dark it was until the first big signs dropped, then you looked back and saw prevous events in a new light. As things came to light, so did the light fade from the show. The main characters became tainted as time went on, one by one drained of their heroics in different ways: Zangetsu nearly paid for it with his life, Baron was led astray by his own perspective of justice, Ryugen became an outright villain, and even Gaim was tainted by the sacrifice of others. Plus, the entire Helheim thign was absolutely a lose-lose senario. Though bittersweet as it was, this made the show gratifying when Gaim, the only one to never falter in his ideals, came out of top without having to compromise. The show had tragedy, betrayal, death, and suffering, but did so very maturely, with tact. It all served a narrative purpose and moved the story forward.

I'm not sure you can say that Gaim never had to compromise. In the end, he achieved his goals by sacrificing others. That's pretty much what Kouta had been fighting against the entire time, but he still had to compromise that to win. If anyone can be said to have never compromised in their ideals, it was probably Kaito--though he of course didn't come out on top.

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnstenchfartface

I'm not sure you can say that Gaim never had to compromise. In the end, he achieved his goals by sacrificing others. That's pretty much what Kouta had been fighting against the entire time, but he still had to compromise that to win. If anyone can be said to have never compromised in their ideals, it was probably Kaito--though he of course didn't come out on top.

I meant in not sacrificing the world. He believed there was an option that wouldn't end with the world taken over, and he was right despite everyone telling him there wouldn't be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanoBaron

I think Agito was a good dark show because it went into things like what makes people human

And yet not a single person in the show really acted like one.

Quote:

and how can you say that the characters weren't emotional?

Because they almost never showed a genuine emotion that wasn't a one-track overdone charicature? (dear Gills: stop screaming. Screaming is not a character)

Quote:

Shouichi had plenty of reactions to things,

Like what? Because I made it 47 episodes into Agito before I just could not take it anymore, and Shouichi had more compassion for his damn tomatoes than for the dozens of people the Unknowns killed. And when he did have compassion for another human? it was only because they meant something to him. He was totally selfish and disconnected.

Quote:

and don't get me wrong, I never said Gaim wasn't dark or that Gaim was bad, just that Agito had darker elements in more ways.

Agito had darker elements, but they were also less mature. Y'know, Family Guy has plenty of death and violence in it. More than Agito did.

Quote:

I mean, nobody in Gaim commited suicide. or death by seaweed.

No, but they did kill their own friends, get crushed to death, blown up, get thrown off buildings, etc. The difference is Gaim had suitable justification for those things and they served a purpose besides just being shock value. They were natural steps in the story, not done simply to be "dark."