[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

Ghost had to retrieve it from Ganma. In the SAME EPISODE HE USED NEWTON, he claimed he will never use an Eyecon that a human had to die for. It's not only contradictory, but also makes no sense.

But if that's the case, it's not just Newton that's the problem. It's Ryouma, Goemon, and Himiko too.

The episode you're talking about is also episode 3, with Robin Hood. That is more or less what he said, but the point was he doesn't want to sacrifice someone for an Eyecon if he can help it. If the Eyecon already exists, he can't help it. It seems straightforward enough to me.

[EpsilonX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade Fang

Ghost Final Episode in Episode 50. This series is almost end but how Makoto obtain Tutankhamun Ghost Eyecon and Houdini Ghost Eyecon is still unknown. Why they not give explanation about Makoto's past when he obtain Tutankhamun and Houdini?

Because it doesn't matter how he got them.

Also, all in all I don't mind VOTW style episodes, but when you have as many subplots as Ghost and don't explain all of them, you shouldn't be focusing on VOTW stuff.

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade Fang

Ghost Final Episode in Episode 50.

I really hope you're miscounting - I don't want an extra two episodes of this show.

[Enchilada645]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

I really hope you're miscounting - I don't want an extra two episodes of this show.

I believe somewhere it was mentioned that Ghost's Story was going to end in 48. And that Episodes 49 and 50 are going to be a crossover with Ex-Aid. So you'll be getting extra Ghost with a preview of Ex-Aid.

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

I believe somewhere it was mentioned that Ghost's Story was going to end in 48. And that Episodes 49 and 50 are going to be a crossover with Ex-Aid. So you'll be getting extra Ghost with a preview of Ex-Aid.

Ugh again...

[Kiwami]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Ugh again...

Hey, you should look forward to these episodes! Two whole episodes which don’t build on the show's ending so they're useless as far as the currently ending show is concerned but they introduce the new Rider which will act and speak in a way which is not representative of the new Rider at all, since he will turn out completely different in his own show.

Isn't that exciting?!

(I'm perfectly aware by the way that at least the Drive/Ghost crossover had a few good scenes, especially those with Shinnosuke and Kiriko, but the crossover itself was still garbage)

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwami

Hey, you should look forward to these episodes! Two whole episodes which don’t build on the show's ending so they're useless as far as the currently ending show is concerned but they introduce the new Rider which will act and speak in a way which is not representative of the new Rider at all, since he will turn out completely different in his own show.

Isn't that exciting?!

(I'm perfectly aware by the way that at least the Drive/Ghost crossover had a few good scenes, especially those with Shinnosuke and Kiriko, but the crossover itself was still garbage)

I just want to never have to see these characters again. That's all I'm asking for.

[TheGloryXros]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

The show is coming to a closure. The stakes are raising. They've been raising. This was likely the last VotW plot you're going to have to suffer through. There's at least 4 whole episodes left. That is more time than it might sound like to wrap everything up in a nice little bow.

Yea, the stakes have sure been raising....when our main character has died, like, TWICE NOW ever since he was turned into Ghost(3 counting the Movie), and has still been revived...

Don't get me wrong, I get that Adel is getting stronger & all, and he technically continued Demia before it completely failed, but still....the buildup towards this conclusion was honestly sloppy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

No I don't. I've been puzzling that for two years now, I'm literally at the 34th episode of a rewatch I've been doing to see if it makes more sense then I remember and I still think Gaim's writing was, at the absolute best, no less sloppy than Ghost's. Feel free to just ignore the rest of my post since I'm obviously crazy, but Gaim is not the gold standard other shows should be held up against.

LOL REALLY?!! You SERIOUSLY don't see the difference in writing of the two shows & which has more quality?! Gaim, which had a continuous plot, a cohesive storyline & a main character who actually goes through some CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT?! Compared to Ghost which has ridiculous pacing issues & a main character who is pretty much at this point just another Gary Stu?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Kouta and Takeru are actually really similar characters though. They're both kinda doofy generically nice people who grow into more larger than life, heroic characters over the course of the series.

No, they're not quite the same, due to CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, or in Takeru's case, lack thereof.

With Kouta, the writers made it very clear that they were emphasizing Kouta to grow mature. Heck, Urobochi made it a point that his show's theme was kids growing into adulthood. Kouta had to learn about the responsibility of gaining power, and how he must use power in order to break the unfair rules of sacrifice. Meanwhile, Takeru? For the majority of the Series, I've struggled to see one Episode where I can legit say he had character development. Almost every time, it's him helping someone else out with their troubles. Hence why VotW Episodes can get problematic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

That's exactly what they did!!!

LOL NO THEY DIDN'T!!! Name ONE instance where Takeru himself felt one of the emotions from Mugen. The only possible one that I could say he felt was Joy, since he was all happy that everyone did so much to bring him back. But other than that, it's always him reflecting on others acting on those emotions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

He's not preaching when he gives those speeches, he's saying what he's learned from his experiences with others. That's what the whole showdown with Adel a couple episodes back was all about. It's what the whole show is about. He's had all these crazy adventures and he's learned stuff. He's been learning stuff since the earliest episodes. That is exactly what character development is all about. I know it's easy to go "well he's a generic nice guy at the start, and he's a generic nice guy at the end," and say that he's bland but it just isn't the case because there's more to it than that.

....But how does watching all these emotions being displayed by others benefit him as a character?! And I say WATCHING because there's no way he's "learning" about these...it's not like he was unaware of these emotions himself, now is he? -__-

WHAT has Takeru learned?! What shows in his character that he's different & changed from who he was at the start? He hasn't gone through anything that has challenged his ideals & made him have to question himself. I mean, I know Kamen Rider has a bad habit of not developing their main character much but THIS.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I swear, it's literally every year with the "main character is bland" crap. I hope for your sakes Ex-Aid turns out to be the most three-dimensional character ever put to television, because sometimes I swear you people won't be satisfied with anything less.

I hope so too, cuz I'm tired of Kamen Rider giving us near-bland main protagonists. Know what I'd REALLY like? I know I'm gonna get flack for this, but I think we need another Tsukasa type person for our main protagonist. We have way too many goodie-two-shoe leads, a rebellious & cocky(but not an idiot) main character would be a nice change of pace.

[KyoryuGreen]

I completely loved this episode. I enjoyed Onari realizing he was rash but that he learned that he is important to the team and thoroughly enjoyed him and Akari kicking Igor's butt. I see what Onari did as something very human and realistic just because times are dire doesn't mean everyone is going to act the way the should. Takeru was brilliant, I loved using music to help free everyone and also him going to find the real server. He didn't give up hope even though they were tricked and manipulated but stayed strong, helped give everyone else hope and did his best to succeed. Alain and Makoto were both badasses and glad they could help against the Ganmaizers; the three of them together are just an amazing team of riders. I am intrigued with the mystery of Takeru's mother and see that turning into something at the end. Igor pulled some Watchmen level planning here with tricking them with both Bills being his minion and the secondary server; he's more brains then brawn though but that's okay and definitely feel his plan is setting up an amazing end game here. I can't wait to see what happens next.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

Yea, the stakes have sure been raising....when our main character has died, like, TWICE NOW ever since he was turned into Ghost(3 counting the Movie), and has still been revived...

The show was never trying to fake the audience out any of the times Takeru died. It was faking the characters out. Akari spells this out for the audience in episode 42. It felt real to them. Which is what matters, because it allows you to see how everybody (including Takeru!) deals with something that heavy. It's dramatic because of that, not because of any suspense. It's perfectly reasonable no matter how much fun it is to joke about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

Don't get me wrong, I get that Adel is getting stronger & all, and he technically continued Demia before it completely failed, but still....the buildup towards this conclusion was honestly sloppy.

Indeed it was! I will absolutely not deny this, but I think some of you are really overselling how bad Ghost is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

LOL REALLY?!! You SERIOUSLY don't see the difference in writing of the two shows & which has more quality?!

Of course I see the differences in how they're written. I'm not stupid. Gaim has a largely different set of problems and the flaws it has bother me way more than the flaws Ghost has. That's all there is to it. I really would not consider one to be much better than the other though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

Gaim, which had a continuous plot, a cohesive storyline & a main character who actually goes through some CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT?!

There isn't a single Kamen Rider show that doesn't have all those things to some extent.

I don't think there are many stories in general without those three things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

With Kouta, the writers made it very clear that they were emphasizing Kouta to grow mature. Heck, Urobochi made it a point that his show's theme was kids growing into adulthood...

Yeah, and Ghost has made it just as clear they're emphasizing how Takeru becomes stronger because of his relationships with others. It's been that way from the start.

The whole point of the heroic Eyecons is to be something Takeru aspires to. He starts talking directly to them and they each give him advice he needs. That episode after he gets Mugen that someone asked what the point was a couple pages back? That's him cementing how much he's grown. He's now the one imploring them to grow stronger.

The reason he can see people's memories, which, again, the show explicitly spells out in no uncertain terms, is so that he can connect with them emotionally. Hence why Mugen has attacks based on emotions in the first place.

The single most crucial part of Takeru's character, especially at this point, is how empathetic he is. That's what separates him from other Rider protagonists.

I get if that's too sugary for your tastes or whatever, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

....But how does watching all these emotions being displayed by others benefit him as a character?!

Which brings me to this. He feels things when the people around him feel things. Gaim even had a similar moment in episode 5, where Kouta gets the courage to become Gaim again after seeing how Micchi refuses to give up against Baron, and he then gives Kaito a little speech summing up the lesson he learned from that while beating him up.

This is why I maintain they're similar characters. There's a lot of overlap between them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

He hasn't gone through anything that has challenged his ideals & made him have to question himself.

And this is just flatly wrong. The whole debut of Grateful revolved around him completely losing faith in the idea of making nice with the Ganma after seeing what their world is like. He refuses to help Makoto protect Alain because he's "just a Ganma". The Eyecons abandon him because of this dramatic shift in attitude. His friends then help him to regain his faith in his ideals and the Eyecons come back to him.

This is what I'm saying. This isn't subtext. I'm not reading into this too much. It's what the whole entire show has always been about.

Just curious here, but do you find Kenzaki from Blade bland too? Because if you do I won't have to be the only one telling you how mistaken you are about the main characters in Kamen Rider.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

I know I'm gonna get flack for this, but I think we need another Tsukasa type person for our main protagonist.

I also would love to see a third generation Takumi, but the characters we are getting are just as good.

I hope I'm not coming off too aggressive because it really is fine to not like Ghost, and I don't consider it unreasonable to say it's kind of bad. There are flaws to hate, and if it just plain isn't your style then that's also fine, but none of that makes it the utter trainwreck you seem to think it is, and I absolutely think Takeru is not one of those flaws.