[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

So, Faiz?

The way Nexus did it is way different. Imagine if Takumi retired 20 episodes in and some completely new character became Faiz for the rest of the show.

Personally I'd be all for that, I watched Nexus recently and it really is cool how it becomes a completely different show, yet still the same.

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

The way Nexus did it is way different. Imagine if Takumi retired 20 episodes in and some completely new character became Faiz for the rest of the show.

Personally I'd be all for that, I watched Nexus recently and it really is cool how it becomes a completely different show, yet still the same.

No, I know. I've seen Nexus. Actually, a better answer would have been the original series. That's pretty much exactly what happened with Hongo and Ichimonji.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

That's pretty much exactly what happened with Hongo and Ichimonji.

That's a pretty good point, actually. Obviously the circumstances were a bit more meta and not thematic but yeah, that is kind of similar.

[MarsHottentot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Lucha

In our little bubble of toku fandom, we fail to take into account how off-putting mainstream audiences find tokusatsu aesthetics. The elements we find charming are almost universally seen as cheap, silly, and garish to people with no love for the medium.

We may be enamored by rubber-suited monsters whose mouths don't move when they talk, heroes who fight with plastic toy weapons, battles that take place in exterior locations completely devoid of extras, editing that employs rapid and unexplained location changes, miniature sets made of cardboard, and CGI straight out of a cable show from the 90s... but the average viewer, who has no familiarity with or affinity for the budgetary shortcuts this medium utilizes, sees all of the elements we cherish as flaws.

This aesthetic distaste, paired the amount of Japanese cultural knowledge required to decipher what's going on in these stories, creates a nigh impenetrable membrane around tokusatsu that repels casual, mainstream, non-Japanese, adult viewers.

For these reasons, I don't think Toei/Tsuburaya-style tokusatsu can ever rise beyond its status as a niche obsession in the States. That niche may have a higher occupancy threshold than we see now, but it's my belief that this style of tokusatsu will never be mainstream in America, certainly not enough to justify placement on a major broadcast or cable network.

Sigh... yeah, you're right (hangs head, kicks dirt, then looks out at the lake). It's just kind of stupid, y'know? These shows aren't that much different than the DC stuff on CW, at least budget wise - and people watch the shit out of that. But, yeah, those awesome toku quirks... you either get it, or you don't.

[MarsHottentot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

The way Nexus did it is way different. Imagine if Takumi retired 20 episodes in and some completely new character became Faiz for the rest of the show.

Personally I'd be all for that, I watched Nexus recently and it really is cool how it becomes a completely different show, yet still the same.

How about your "wandering hero" idea (ala Incredible Hulk) but like this:

A mysterious old man with briefcase wanders from town to town, when he finds people in peril, he gives them use of what lay within the case - a driver - but the driver "henshins" into the titular Kamen Rider every time, with his own personality, but guided by the user wearing it, including certain quirks and skills and power ups of their own that end up as surprises even to the Rider. When the PotW / MotW has been dealt with, the old man wanders on to the next adventure.

Of course, he's being hunted by the ancient organization that made the belt, wanting to use it to destroy the world (or whatever). Maybe he was the Rider as a young man and did some horrible things but, an event happened that broke him and he stole the driver, ran and has been running ever since. He once used the belt regularly, but using it now would kill him due to his age, so he "gifts" it to those in need. Maybe he has a grandson or an orphan girl who accompanies him, who he's training to take his place - but they're too young to use the belt, with great harm being the risk. Of course, the series would build this character until they were capable of taking the belt at the end, which could then start an entirely new, different series.

Man, this stuff is easy...

[Guyver Spawn]

Could we ever get a Ryuki 15th anniversary special? I know it would be hard to do, but I think they could do another AU type of film. Takamasa Suga still voices Ryuki in the video games. So maybe he can return.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guyver Spawn

Could we ever get a Ryuki 15th anniversary special?

As much as I love Ryuki, I don't really think the plot has anywhere left to go or anything left to say. I guess you could do the whole AU thing but like what would it even be about?

[HenshinTrouble]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarsHottentot

But, yeah, those awesome toku quirks... you either get it, or you don't.

One of my initial hang-ups before I learned to love toku was how a lot of the props on the show looked like toys, from the robots to the equipment. The literal turning point was when I looked at this from the other direction: "Wow, these toys are pretty show-accurate!"

[Powerman293]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Lucha

In our little bubble of toku fandom, we fail to take into account how off-putting mainstream audiences find tokusatsu aesthetics. The elements we find charming are almost universally seen as cheap, silly, and garish to people with no love for the medium.

We may be enamored by rubber-suited monsters whose mouths don't move when they talk, heroes who fight with plastic toy weapons, battles that take place in exterior locations completely devoid of extras, editing that employs rapid and unexplained location changes, miniature sets made of cardboard, and CGI straight out of a cable show from the 90s... but the average viewer, who has no familiarity with or affinity for the budgetary shortcuts this medium utilizes, sees all of the elements we cherish as flaws.

Yeah, but don't we as enthusiast watchers feel the same way about mainstream media? The CGI designs are shit, the effects are way too over the top, the focus on spectacle/CG take away from characters and the story.

That also makes me ask, is toku just seen as it's bad by everyone outside the fandom? Like, I feel like a lot of the best TV show stories I've seen are from Rider, but is the budget/toy focus too distracting for people to focus on the good?

Quote:

This aesthetic distaste, paired the amount of Japanese cultural knowledge required to decipher what's going on in these stories, creates a nigh impenetrable membrane around tokusatsu that repels casual, mainstream, non-Japanese, adult viewers.

I've seen plenty of Rider series but I've never felt really lost on what's going on due to the culture differences. For example: My favorite Rider show Blade is about pretty common themes throughout media. Betrayal, loss, hard choices, coming of age, and sacrifice being some examples I can think off the top of my head. Is there just some sort of different tone to it that being Japanese inherently does that I can't distinguish because I'm used to anime and this kind of stuff?

The closest I can of being lost on cultural stuff think of is Kabuto with all the Japanese food and stuff or some of the crazy OOO nobunaga stuff.

Quote:

For these reasons, I don't think Toei/Tsuburaya-style tokusatsu can ever rise beyond its status as a niche obsession in the States. That niche may have a higher occupancy threshold than we see now, but it's my belief that this style of tokusatsu will never be mainstream in America, certainly not enough to justify placement on a major broadcast or cable network.

I agree. It'll be niche, but it certainly has a much higher ceiling of appeal it could reach though. I feel like Rider series could rival some popular animes in the states (not the super huge ones like Attack on Titan) if Toei tried hard enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarsHottentot

Sigh... yeah, you're right (hangs head, kicks dirt, then looks out at the lake). It's just kind of stupid, y'know? These shows aren't that much different than the DC stuff on CW, at least budget wise - and people watch the shit out of that. But, yeah, those awesome toku quirks... you either get it, or you don't.

Maybe Amazons will open people up a bit.

[Guyver Spawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

As much as I love Ryuki, I don't really think the plot has anywhere left to go or anything left to say. I guess you could do the whole AU thing but like what would it even be about?

Well I guess they can have Takamasa Suga return in a 2017 Spring crossover film. There is the 15th anniversary of Agito ending next year. Toshiki Kashu also return to voice Agito in the video games. So it's possible that he could return as Agito for a 15th anniversary or in a crossover movie.