[Paladin]

Ace offers Michinaga a truce to stand against the reborn Jyamoto.

[Mesnick]

Wow, I'm the first to comment! Watched the last two episodes. I can say that I like DR because there are no extra members who just loom in the background, getting a minimum of text, like Keiwa in JGP. So far, everyone is important to the overall plot and everyone has an important role to play. Also goodbye Archimedes, you were a colorful antagonist. Although I still think that Jamato could develop further and more interesting than just turning into the people absorbed by them. Kekera has finally registered as a scoundrel and, it seems, may well take away the title of the most cruel supporter from Beroba. In general, the closeness of the finale is felt, and I even think it’s too early for the show to start pumping up. The return of PunkJack plus

[DreadBringer]

Not an objectively bad one like usual with nice character moments, but had me personally conflicted.

So the Grand End is something quite "simple" in first glance, just the DGP leaving the current world to start over somewhere else. I thought before there are various DGPs in various worlds, but it seems that only 1 is held at a time. The stakes is everyone in that world forgetting the DGP, which'd make it near impossible to track down the DGP for those who wants to take it down, like Ace for Mitsume. It's mitigated for the sponsor-related parties, that they can have a chance to retain them.

Niram takes an active role again after his resurrection, to try steering Win based on his wants to keep his memories... like Girori. He also assigns supporters like Ziin to do his bidding. Him claiming that he's also looking for what happened to Mitsume seems to confirm that he purposely lied to Ace before, that cruelty. And here, now Kousei's the one who is disgusted with Niram treating the world as disposable entertainment. Niram is often shown eating fancy stuff, and it's actually canonically seen as one of his personal happiness. With him probably being wealthy from his income, overall he seems to be a merely hedonist.

Previously Win seems to be back on the DGP side, but it's consistent that it's not, with him refusing another offer to keep his memories like Girori did, from Niram. And him fighting Ace was just him "greeting" him, continuing to help him by informing about Grand End. Albeit the help is about looking for Mitsume, not thinking that Ace would fight hard against it. This episode claims he's revived, but the special apparently claims he somehow didn't die before... About Win calling Ace brother, so this'd show that he's genuinely attracted to Tsumuri, and sets on marrying her, turning Ace into his brother-in-law, not just a facade.

Other than his truce with Ace, Michinaga is also pitted against Archimedel, both battling for the ID Cores, for Michinaga to advance the game/crush and Archimedel to use as fertilizer. His wish completely follows his words, meaning that Buffa gets his ass handed by the Dunkleosteus Jamato. Guess this'd answer why Buffa doesn't get upgrades as a Jamashin, because he's not made to be completely invincible. Not the first time, but Michinaga here has even more softened interactions with Ace like him warning about Archimedel's actions, and he just quietly being in denial when Ace points out that he's being helpful, which seems to establish him as a tsundere and now integrated in his side.

But actually, I'm worried that now this can mean that Michinaga may will get away with everything by being buddy-buddy with the main cast, regardless if he's redeemed or not, even though Ace never had a real contempt for him before. Ace frames Michinaga's Rider hunting as not only sparing them in comparison to Jamatos to only get them retired, but also saving them. Michinaga's denial is also quite tame to claim as only teaching them a lesson. This does provide more context in his Rider hunting that he'd want to eliminate the desires in those Riders via the retirements and memory wipe, which is consistent via his hatred of desires and happiness.

But this just feels like downplaying his crimes (and the term anti-hero being used in-universe for this), with the question of Michinaga leaving Riders to die or not like pretending it never happened, when he did to Takeshi, extending to civilians, and also directly murdering Tycoon and Geats. Ofc, later Michinaga's still going on about hunting Riders, and only fighting Archimedel to take back the ID Cores, which Ace again frames him as being tsundere (that he genuinely wants to save Sara, after ). I hope that actually, it's just Ace's tricks to try to appease him, since he has no way of beating him in battle now, trying to stay on his good side so that he doesn't die. Otherwise, Ace also outclasses Michinaga, in drawing. As an artist, I fully take Ace's side against Michinaga claiming it's tryhard and overdesigned.

The DezaStar stuff is brought up though only minor of Neon regretting her action choices in ep. 22, but cursing Daichi's fate as that, who has betrayed them again. It happens that Sara learns about Neon's circumstances behind her existence, and though Sara wouldn't change her views on her, Neon still feels guilty about something outside her control, claiming that she leads her fans on. She still underestimates how much the fans care about her though, to think that it's easy to find another favorite, seems to be the side effect of feeling loveless due to her parents' treatment. And despite regularly thanking people, she's baffled about friendships too, as Keiwa'd convince her that there are people who accept her in this era like him viewing her as a friend. While Keiwa's be protective of anyone, now here Keiwa is shown to really value Neon's presence personally too, not mentioning Sara first anymore like ep. 4. Here it's claimed that going to the future isn't what Neon really want.

I thought the screenshot of Keiwa and Neon smiling proudly to Sara was about her growing as a fighter (though she shoved a Pawn Jamato away), but actually not yet, albeit there's actual character progression of her. Though she has stated that she can't keep going without Neon TV, she still views Neon as a person, and not a fodder for her entertainment, thus she'd accept Neon's decision to sever ties with the current world, albeit she'd still continue to be devoted. Beroba and Kekera's schemes successfully lure Keiwa to take Sara away from the Jamatos, and Sara actually got quite angry for Keiwa joining. Neon's now get even more involved with the Sakurai siblings to defuse the argument, but Sara now extends her motivation of fighting for Neon's happiness as well... which'd be what gets Keiwa to accept her participation, thus he's not overly protective. And what Keiwa and Neon are proud of is Sara's inner character strength, not capabilities.

And for Dunkleosteus Jamato, it manages to be a good match for even Geats LaserBoost. I wonder if it's actually comparable to final bosses. Perhaps by this I should give more credit to Na-Go fighting it off in ep. 30, with necessary aid from Kyuun though. Of which, Na-Go feels oddly weak here to struggle fighting multiple, but Pawn Jamatos. I thought multiple Pawn Jamatos won't surpass a single high-ranked Jamatos. This'd be similar regarding Buffa fighting it with Geats LaserBoost, and Tycoon Command Form putting a better fight to it than Buffa early on should show that the other 2 main Riders aren't slouches to Buffa. This feels like Takahashi's previous climatic fights, of Muteki carrying other Riders against Cronus, and Zero-Two carring other Riders (like Horobi) against Ark. Regarding Buckles compartibility though, Buffa here seems to put better fight with Monster, instead of Zombie. And Geats continue to be a troll to Buffa with using him as a springboard for his invincibility, while shooting him when Buffa confronts him about it.

Archimedel actually dies here, and died a tragic death of being surrounded by his sons. Of course, Beroba would only dismiss him as useless, a move Girori also did to Win. The stakes for the future people is the highest one to have them cease to exist when they're left behind, as Ziin tries to negotiate for mutual benefit, despite this being Beroba's fault. Despite Beroba's sadism, now she's likely forced to comply due to going against Sueru. Seems official that Beroba has been dethroned now. Kekera considering Grand End to be entertaining also displays his lack of regard to living beings like early Ziin.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Kekera has finally registered as a scoundrel and, it seems, may well take away the title of the most cruel supporter from Beroba.

They're both bad for trying to induce misery, regardless of their reasons. But yeah, at least Beroba was actually consistently helpful to Michinaga, while Kekera is figuratively and literally two-faced and mostly a hindrance to Keiwa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

The return of PunkJack plus

You could say, the return of Punkjack is a Win.

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

About Win calling Ace brother, so this'd show that he's genuinely attracted to Tsumuri, and sets on marrying her, turning Ace into his brother-in-law, not just a facade.

Win could already be considered Ace's older brother due to the granted desire, "to become DGP staff's family". If two people accept each other as siblings, then I think that's good enough. This is like how Shinnosuke and Gou were already honorary brothers before the former's marriage to Kiriko, so there's the option that Win could marry Tsumuri as well. Tsumuri doesn't seem interested in him so far though and honestly, I'd like to see Tsumuri finally reciprocate Ace's sibling dynamic before anything else. Ace is going through a hard time and he needs his sisters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

But this just feels like downplaying his crimes (and the term anti-hero being used in-universe for this), with the question of Michinaga leaving Riders to die or not like pretending it never happened, when he did to Takeshi, extending to civilians, and also directly murdering Tycoon and Geats. Ofc, later Michinaga's still going on about hunting Riders, and only fighting Archimedel to take back the ID Cores, which Ace again frames him as being tsundere (that he genuinely wants to save Sara, after ). I hope that actually, it's just Ace's tricks to try to appease him, since he has no way of beating him in battle now, trying to stay on his good side so that he doesn't die. Otherwise, Ace also outclasses Michinaga, in drawing. As an artist, I fully take Ace's side against Michinaga claiming it's tryhard and overdesigned.

I definitely won't forget about the JPG civilian deaths this time! Tsumuri and Beroba brought back Ace and Keiwa respectively, but as long as those civilians stay dead, then Michinaga can still be held culpable for that. However, only the DGP and killed Riders themselves should be help culpable for Rider deaths, as Michinaga understands that DGP is a competitive game and thus he's not obliged to help out other Riders or give them eulogies. There's also his own acknowledgement to Beroba that he doesn't claim to be better than the other Riders, since he still chose to sacrifice people's desires and lives, even if that was for the sake of a world where those sacrifices no longer happen. If being lame at art is a crime though, he's totally guilty of that as well.

It's pretty convenient how the Rider-proofing effect of Buffa's Gods Wall can also provide utility to Riders partnered with him, as Geats shows by using him as a portable wall to rebound off and then humorously shooting him at point blank range just to prove a point that it's okay to do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

I thought the screenshot of Keiwa and Neon smiling proudly to Sara was about her growing as a fighter (though she shoved a Pawn Jamato away), but actually not yet, albeit there's actual character progression of her. Though she has stated that she can't keep going without Neon TV, she still views Neon as a person, and not a fodder for her entertainment, thus she'd accept Neon's decision to sever ties with the current world, albeit she'd still continue to be devoted. Beroba and Kekera's schemes successfully lure Keiwa to take Sara away from the Jamatos, and Sara actually got quite angry for Keiwa joining. Neon's now get even more involved with the Sakurai siblings to defuse the argument, but Sara now extends her motivation of fighting for Neon's happiness as well... which'd be what gets Keiwa to accept her participation, thus he's not overly protective. And what Keiwa and Neon are proud of is Sara's inner character strength, not capabilities.

Sara is easily the most supportable Team Pro-DGP Rider for me, as her desire is actually simple and good, without any downsides (other than typical DGP ethical problems). Now that Daichi's no longer around to sow distrust, we can see how Sara functions as the heart of Team Pro-DGP to raise the morale of the conflicted Neon and Keiwa.

She's more willing to fight for Neon's happiness than Neon herself, who'd rather disappear. Sara's support could be how she eventually encourages Neon to believe in her fans and her authenticity as a person as well. Sara has essentially become an ambassador for all her fans, fighting on their behalf to protect the one they all love and give her their hope, which I think is a very noble motivation.

While in fighting, Hakubi is currently inexperienced and underequipped, she's still a Rider in her own right, so I hope Tycoon can start to assist her more constructively and allow her to become stronger to fight independently for her desire.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Kekera has finally registered as a scoundrel and, it seems, may well take away the title of the most cruel supporter from Beroba.

Kekera is a scoundrel, but eh, no one in this series is worse than Beroba (perhaps not even the likes of Niram, at least for what's shown now, the DGP may be the perpetrator, but those opposing perpetrators can be even worse). Kekera only did something cruel once so far in this one attempt to get Keiwa "stronger", while otherwise is a mentor that is quite harsh and controlling, but Beroba does that all the time. Kekera is just similar to other non-Beroba supporters of not comprehending current era people's lives and view them as sources of entertainment, like early Ziin, though he's helpful to Ace, he's using the chaos around Geats went through as something to watch and enjoy, including when Buffa attacks him as glorious rivalry, even though it'd indirectly hinder the people around them too.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I definitely won't forget about the JPG civilian deaths this time! Tsumuri and Beroba brought back Ace and Keiwa respectively, but as long as those civilians stay dead, then Michinaga can still be held culpable for that. However, only the DGP and killed Riders themselves should be help culpable for Rider deaths, as Michinaga understands that DGP is a competitive game and thus he's not obliged to help out other Riders or give them eulogies. There's also his own acknowledgement to Beroba that he doesn't claim to be better than the other Riders, since he still chose to sacrifice people's desires and lives, even if that was for the sake of a world where those sacrifices no longer happen. If being lame at art is a crime though, he's totally guilty of that as well.

Would be long for this.

Yeah, what happens to nameless extras shouldn't be overlooked, or let alone dismissed as who cares if they're killed nobody does, not only the named characters. Though for civilians I'm bringing up more than the Heaven and Hell game (and he knows they're being used as sacrifices for JGP winner, and at worst, with the wish reveal, good can't be measured by statistics?); he has no problem helping to run the JGP, so long as he can damage the Riders and the DGP, the damage done to public and civilians be damned, at least working on setting the lightning turrets in the city. It'd be like opening a fire to a target without caring for any of the misfire or putting a bomb to certain place without caring of who got caught in the radius.

While it's indirect, it's what cemented Daichi as an evil Rider to me (where before he seemed as merely an asshole) in him joining the Jamato crew and enjoying seeing them terrorize civilians (while Michinaga is callous about it, compared to their maliciousness). Even with his standards, he doesn't step up to actually stop the shitty things Beroba did. He too discouraged saving civilians (which actually matters more since the reveal of how the wishes are made) due to accusing those who do as doing it for points, and also knowingly took Sae's Zombie even though her family is targeted by the DGP which can result in potential failure of those being saved with weaker stuff. I think though Michinaga doesn't deny Beroba claiming he's a hypocrite like the Riders he hates, he can still try to take the moral high ground, like deflecting blames to anyone else but him. And the part of Riders not knowing how the DGP work shouldn't be used to demonize them regarding sacrificing people's lives and desires part.

But regarding the part where Keiwa and Ace got murdered, I kinda dislike on how, it's still treated as DGP stuff? Not everything related to the Rider stuff is DGP. That time, it's solely the core trio going on protecting people by their own volition without a promise of reward (as pointed out in-series), because it's not required in the JGP (just that you're marked as bigger targets). If you're still arguing cause and effect for cases in putting your lives on line for doing something as a typical Kamen Rider would, then what should they do at this case, letting JGP be? Seems that this DGP assumption is what makes these actions overlooked (to just be assume those as competitively palying as usual), or perhaps also to make skeptical assumptions that this is done just to continue picking off from what's left in the DGP, but I don't think that something like Keiwa and Neon helping people patch up the festival or Ace taking his time to take care of Shouta and his wants is any related to getting the Vision Drivers back.

Regarding the excuse of it being a competitive game, would this technically also absolve the blames from Riders like Kanato, Morio, Daichi, the Riders who left Toru for dead themselves? And regarding competitive game kind, I wouldn't like for that to be used to allow anyone on it to be allowed to freely doing anything in the name of winning or game theory (which is something you said yourself). And wouldn't want for Michinaga to get double standards regarding this only because he has a point and is the one who deals with the problem or such. This also applies in real life of people encouraging moves that endangered other contestants in a competitive sport, especially if it comes from a legendary winner. Technically, life as a whole is also competition with others (with people encouraging cruelty as they think it's what gets people ahead). I wish that people would acknowledge the concept of healthy competition more, viewing others as "opponents", not "enemy", to try strive for winning without turning the environment into a cruel dog-eat-dog one, or trying to make it better, like how the DGP (and also DR perhaps) doesn't require for others to die for winning, unlike Rider War.

And actually, I'd think it's a more definitive proof of someone being a good person, if they're doing kind actions in the situations they don't have to be. So yeah, I'd value actions done outside of obligations more. Which'd be why I think those having noble occupations shouldn't be immediately elevated as more heroic than those who doesn't. Not that I would be skeptical for people like for example, Shotaro (a paid private detective), but I did discuss about it elsewhere to help differentiate better between those who put their heart and soul into doing the right thing, even the little things of the job, or those who just do the bare minimum and don't even bother to be professional about it (e.g. "all that matters is catching the criminal") - the latter is what's limited to obligation only. Saving the civilians in the DGP gets the question mark about them doing it for ulterior motives as DGP encourages it for points, but I think helping any fellow rival Riders, like what people like Keiwa or Neon did, would be what cements those as genuinely good for me (or definitive good side in someone), because as you said, there's no obligation for it. In Ryuki, Shinji says protecting people also means protecting the Riders as well.

[Daikaijuman54]

"Losing a family member builds character, Keiwa." -Kekera probably

Yeah, this episode's not spectacular, especially how they made it sound in the preview, but I still enjoyed the nice character moments. But I strangely found Archimedel's death to be kind of endearing, how his Jamato come to mourn him (while figuratively, it's still a nice scene). I always did find it nice how much he cared about his little cannon fodder, so it was a nice sendoff.

I really don't see me being against Niram, who does seem to have genuine care at times, even if he's working for a guy who sacrifices people for fun, neither do I entirely dislike Kekera, who's pretty much just pushing Keiwa to be that "hero" he aspired to be in the early episodes. It's really a batch I don't entirely dislike, despite their crimes, though I can't say the same for Beroba, who is absolutely a sadist who gets kicks out of other's suffering.

Wondering if they're bringing Nadge-Sparrow back again with her taking his core?

Next Episode: "Let's get the **** outta here!" -Suel the Swell

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daikaijuman54

I really don't see me being against Niram, who does seem to have genuine care at times, even if he's working for a guy who sacrifices people for fun,

I think you are projecting. Niram enjoys the things he doesn't have in the future, like good food or fighting, but overall he's just a regular employee of the show. His proposals to Kosei are simply spelled out in the instructions and are not a sign of any special relationship.

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neither do I entirely dislike Kekera, who's pretty much just pushing Keiwa to be that "hero" he aspired to be in the early episodes.

Rather, Kekera is one of those fans who strive to realize their vision, even if it does not correspond to reality. But the bottom line is that all the people of the future, except for Tsurumi, Ziin and Kiuun, do not perceive modern people (both Riders and civilians) as equal to themselves. Basically, Beroba accurately described it when destroying Jamato's garden: "To me, they've been dead for thousands of years." Therefore, people from the future are just having fun. Beroba enjoys suffering, along the way doing everything so that it is her chosen one who wins; Kekera creates his own ninja tanuki fanfiction; Niram is constrained by the duties of a producer, but he also has sadistic habits (one fight, or rather a beating, Michinaga, shows this well).

[Daikaijuman54]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

I think you are projecting. Niram enjoys the things he doesn't have in the future, like good food or fighting, but overall he's just a regular employee of the show. His proposals to Kosei are simply spelled out in the instructions and are not a sign of any special relationship.



Rather, Kekera is one of those fans who strive to realize their vision, even if it does not correspond to reality. But the bottom line is that all the people of the future, except for Tsurumi, Ziin and Kiuun, do not perceive modern people (both Riders and civilians) as equal to themselves. Basically, Beroba accurately described it when destroying Jamato's garden: "To me, they've been dead for thousands of years." Therefore, people from the future are just having fun. Beroba enjoys suffering, along the way doing everything so that it is her chosen one who wins; Kekera creates his own ninja tanuki fanfiction; Niram is constrained by the duties of a producer, but he also has sadistic habits (one fight, or rather a beating, Michinaga, shows this well).

My apologies, I was tired last night so I did word things wrong. However, maybe that's just me, but what I meant to say was that I genuinely don't dislike Niram or much of the future people, who get a kick out of messing with people. In Niram's case, I meant that he had some attachment to this timeline, which not much, makes him at least a little less of a corporate puppet in that he has something positive to sat about the world he's messing with.

Hope I'm not sounding rude or anything, you all do have good points, and it was just a result of my tired brain not wording things right.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daikaijuman54

My apologies, I was tired last night so I did word things wrong. However, maybe that's just me, but what I meant to say was that I genuinely don't dislike Niram or much of the future people, who get a kick out of messing with people. In Niram's case, I meant that he had some attachment to this timeline, which not much, makes him at least a little less of a corporate puppet in that he has something positive to sat about the world he's messing with.

Hope I'm not sounding rude or anything, you all do have good points, and it was just a result of my tired brain not wording things right.

I don't hate him either, but I want him to be beaten. Just because his duel with Geats was interrupted and therefore a second battle is necessary. But generally speaking, I have from Niram vibes Shocker and Foundation X.

[Hiikomori]

i guess everybody is going to be rushing to that gate or Ace somehow manages to stop the Grand End with Boost MkIII.