[Layton13]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I think I see what you're saying, but I don't agree with it necessarily happening here? Genta isn't making a decision about his autonomy or self-determination -- he's choosing to sacrifice himself so that Ikki can have the tools needed to defeat Giff. Setting aside the relatable emotional aspect of a son fighting to keep his father from sacrificing himself, Ikki's absolutely right to say that he could never use a tool his father died making, and that's probably a good enough reason to pull the plug on the whole thing.

Like, the important thing to note is that all this sort of stuff is in service of Ikki's heroism, so Ikki should be allowed to set the terms of that service.

Fair enough.

I personally see it differently, but I can totally see where you are coming from as well.

Simply a different perspective on this whole thing.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

Fair enough.

I personally see it differently, but I can totally see where you are coming from as well.

Simply a different perspective on this whole thing.

Absolutely! I really appreciate you going into more detail about your criticism.

[Switchblade]

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Originally Posted by Androzani84

And then there?s the surgery scene, which makes it clear that Kinoshita has never taken a medical class in his life. Aside from allowing someone in with a video camera (which would not be allowed in real life, since it could contaminate the room), both Karizaki wear some blatantly non-regulation clothing that would also not be allowed. This picture points them out, along with a basic summary of the episode.

This is the same franchise that once showed a dude performing two surgeries at the same time as a flex and where bandages and compresses can cure pretty much any injury. It's not like we're violating the historical standard of verisimilitude in depictions of medical treatment in Kamen Rider here.

[Sh Ranger]

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Originally Posted by Layton13

It may just be the fact that I personally have a strong dislike for people who involve themself in someone's agency and take it for themself.

Same here. It kind of undermines the whole message of individuality this show's going for when that dysfunctional family is always depicted as being right in the end, even when they're wrong. Maybe Daiji would actually be able to understand the value in Franklin's philosophy of preserving freedom over safety, if the people preaching to him weren't so incredulous and imposing with their ideals (or if the Weekenders weren't so unnecessarily shady with their aesthetic). Like watching a mirror with those siblings.

I'll also take this opportunity to say that Akemi deserved so much better. All the side characters deserved better.

[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I mean, he wasn't fine -- that's where Kagerou came from! All of this stuff was in him the whole time, and the stress of trying to be a source of stability for both his family and his job has led to a pretty major relapse.

I've talked about this long ago.... A story can make a representation of anyone else's darkest traits but not directly coming from them, like using separate entity in Kagerou who actually acts on those envy, albeit it does can end with the original person apologizing for what that entity do regardless (and as you said, there's a difference between just blaming yourself to being actually at fault). Jealousy can be a normal human thing and gets a bad rep, but there can be someone pretty well in control of it, which is admirable if anything. Daiji didn't act on those feelings (up until now), while Kagerou does. Kagerou should be considered as a separate entity, there's also a lot of other stories that involve duality and an evil half (including superpowered ones, you can make dark twist for anything too including "Rider sensibility").

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER REVICE EPISODE 38 - “A FATHER AND SON WEAVES! THE ULTIMATE REVICE!”

Genta’s the main one, and his story’s success is almost entirely down to the charm of the actor, and the narrative weight of the Igarashi family. Genta’s actions here are… weird. He’s looking to atone for unleashing Vail on the world, as well as passing his Giff genetics onto his kids, so he offers himself up to Weekend to extract Giff cells for use in Ikki’s new power-up. It’s a choice that almost instantly comes across as short-sighted and selfish, since both Genta and Karizaki Sr don’t see any problem with hiding from Genta’s family the fact that he’s undergoing potentially fatal surgery to empower Ikki. Like, this is weirdly selfish for Genta, right? While he plays off the seriousness of this plan to Ikki, we definitely heard Karizaki Sr say that this was an incredibly risky procedure. This is not getting your wisdom teeth out, this is extracting demonic cells that currently act as your vascular system. It’s very weird that Genta doesn’t want to talk things over with his wife, at the very least! I could write it off as Genta’s newfound guilt manifesting itself as a particularly deranged protection for his family, but we find out at the end that he’s faking his serious new attitude. He’s the same guy he was in Episode 1, who ABSOLUTELY would not subject himself to a 50/50 medical procedure without talking things over with his family. Very weird plot for this guy!

How the form was created, there's 2 families with their issues involved, fitting the episode's title of Father and Son Synthesize, featuring both Ikki and Genta, as well as George and Masumi. For the Igarashis part, it's quite nice use of Genta, using what happened in the past to try solving problems as Subject 071 that has Giff cells, and dealing with his potential demise of bidding farewell but also planning to take a bath with the rest of family when it's over. What I don't like is though, ironically despite the accusation of Sakura being Kinoshita's favorite, Genta's "farewell" to Sakura was the most objectified one, only viewing her as who she is, the little princess, instead of her actual characterization like Ikki and Daiji. Like the ad-vice for Sakura can be like, loosen up (as a high strung girl) or something.

Ikki here showed that he still prioritized his family over anything else, in how he'd rather have the world where his family is complete, to not let Genta be sacrificed, even when he's ready. Though still he's not someone who'd leave anyone other than his family to their fate in the crisis, so he's still practically someone who'd look for best outcome if possible, and he did here to almost complete the Giffard Rex ViStamp and saving Genta, practically being a 'busybody' to intervene and interrupt something that can cause bad outcome. I still would want to know what'd he do if there's less best outcome and he had to choose between family or common people's needs. It's probably a bit easy other than Ikki needing to split the ViStamp in half, but Ikki being 'busybody' here did cause the best outcome to give humanity hope against Giff and saving Genta, so this'd prove Daiji wrong, but Daiji's mind still hasn't changed yet, and that'd just mean Daiji is the one who is blinded by the reality surrounding him, that humanity actually now have hope (though Akaishi dismissed them), and Daiji can be the one to ruin things instead if he keeps mad.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Speaking of tortured absentee fathers! The second dad story this time out is George and his Daddy, and it’s fine. It’s fine. The relationship between George and his Daddy is super straightforward: Karizaki Sr abandoned his entire family for decades out of guilt, and George (rightfully) resents him for it. There’s no real sense that Karizaki Sr needed to disappear – Weekend has been woefully inept at containing Fenix’s power over the last few years, and before that? Why did this dude need to vanish for so long, accomplishing zilch? It’s a confusing story, emotionally, because the show keeps trying to portray Karizaki Sr as a guy who regrets the time he missed, but not the choices, but the choices were all dumb. That all leaves George to rightly tell this dude to eff off, but then the Emotional Music comes up, and these two scientists set aside their past to build a future for all of humanity, and I’m like Fine. Fine!

I'm not really into the Karizaki part in this episode too, the first part was decent, of showing how George trying too hard to condemn someone guilty can put himself in the wrong as well to be clouded by his judgment and not thinking rationally, but George making amends with Masumi was kinda rushed here, all it takes was Ikki giving a small pep talk, over being honest which somehow worked against lifetime daddy issues George had, of which George has been so headstrong previously like Sakura's attempt to get those 2 to make up.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

There’s not a lot of meat on this one, but I just dig Hiromi showing up to be both Daiji’s Work Dad, and, like, a sponsor from a recovery program. Hiromi’s here to rescue Daiji from turning into, uh, Hiromi. It’s not an especially complicated plot: Hiromi shows up at Fenix and tells Daiji to take better care of himself before he ends up having to fight his family, and Daiji’s like I Have To Take This Call Goodbye. It’s more about establishing Hiromi’s new role on the show – Anti-Kagerou – and planting the seed for Daiji’s possible redemption. Crucially, this is only even possible because the advice is coming from outside Daiji’s family; Ikki could say the same thing and get punched in the face for it. It’s a nice way of illustrating how much Daiji’s defense mechanism is about treating Ikki as a nuisance, but viewing Fenix/Hiromi as On His Side. Again, not a lot here, but I liked the new developments.

Hiromi returns and, I'm quite glad he seems to have learned his lesson, as he said here, he acknowledged that now he can't participate in battle, but he can still perform heroics in other field. Him insisting to keep using Demons Driver was just purely being reckless, and him having self-preservance here doesn't make him any less heroic, if he's not apathetic like his Dear Gaga self. I do understand now what Hiromi embraces in Dear Gaga Part 2, but didn't think that he got a message about self-preservance, that now he does here. And as expected, he relates his previous recklessness with Daiji's now. But Daiji's different now, Hiromi's sense of justice was only endangering himself before, while Daiji turned himself into an extremist that'd bring misfortune to others. I didn't expect about Rex Deadman being brought up again now, of which turns out losing the demon was what made Hiromi even more impulsive in his decisions, that Rex Deadman was what balanced him as his demon. I'd see later if demons can re-manifest, either for Hiromi's Rex Deadman or Daiji's Kagerou though.

They're trying to flesh out Giff more here, that Akaishi claimed Giff was misunderstood due to being viewed as nothing more than a devil by humans when he sought peaceful coexistence with humankind. Which adds some tragic points on Giff and explanations of him starting his evil deeds. Of course, this can also be Akaishi's prejudiced views against humans and Giff, talking about humans being demonic ones, which can be true that some humans can be really vile. Doesn't mean Giff is faultless for 'retaliating' against humans though.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The suits themselves, great. A+ designs. I like that they’re the same; we’re no longer viewing Revi or Vice as in charge or subservient, they’re exactly the same. I like that being expressed across a suit design that says Revice more than any previous upgrade did. A thousand percent to this maybe being the Final Form for our heroes. But this story? For that suit? UGH. No. No thank you. No, the story all about dads where Ikki is the recipient of power should not be the one where Ikki and Vice get the Ultimate Friendship Suits. Nope! Absolutely not. A pair of suits like that need to be the culmination of Ikki and Vice’s friendship, or a sacrifice the two of them make for the world. It shouldn’t be a decision Genta makes, via the teamwork of George and his Daddy. That’s… boy, it honestly makes me really dislike the suits. Very disappointed in how this power-up got introduced.

Though it'd be what's expected of me, yeah I'd say the final form debut is kinda underwhelming. Before elaborating, I guess the "Giff power" Akemi talked about so far was about them multiplying into huge numbers, just like how Giff Juniors emerged. But other than that, if the theme about 2 side of the magnets (N for Revi, S for Vice), then it's underutilized other than the finisher to some extent, they are mostly just fighting with energy powered punch/kicks or AoE attacks, red for Revi and blue for Vice. There can be a lot more creative use of magnet power, like they're fighting huge hordes of Giff henchmen, the magnet ability can be used to pull a chunk of the mooks in 1 place so their numbers don't matter, they can be killed in 1 attack or such. Barid Rex's ice and fire were utilized better. The Remix Rod, other than using Ikki's soccer ability, it kinda reminds me of GaoIcarus' Icarus Dynamite. What I'd like is that the trend of final form looking exactly like base form is put on halt here with Ultimate Revi/Vice's design being different, and I would put them above Revice's design, but still not Jack Revice's.

Over Demons has no hype anymore, other than Hikaru keep using it, it's now actually beaten by Giff's hordes along with Jeanne and Aguilera. Over Demons now acted just like a regular Rider, despite it being a combination of Vail and Demons, 2 previously big threats, albeit it only had slightly higher stats than Demons. And now Jeanne claiming to be invincible turns into embarrassing joke.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Kagerou should be considered as a separate entity, there's also a lot of other stories that involve duality and an evil half (including superpowered ones, you can make dark twist for anything too including "Rider sensibility").

Boy, I really really really gotta push back on this interpretation. So much of the Kagerou/Daiji story is about how Kagerou comes from Daiji, and that viewing Kagerou as somehow separate from (and independent of) Daiji risks misdiagnosing Daiji's emotional issues. That's why things are real bad right now! Because Daiji's like I Defeated Kagerou, when Kagerou was only ever a manifestation of Daiji's deep-seated resentment and jealousy! So Daiji is unprepared for another descent into rage-filled judgment of Ikki!

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER REVICE EPISODE 39 - “HOPE AND DESPAIR, A SIBLING CONFLICT”



OOF. Rough episode to watch! I don’t think it’s a bad episode, but like a lot of Daiji-focused content: Your Mileage May Vary.

It’s a tricky part of any Fall From Grace-style arc, where a hero consistently makes terrible decisions in the name of selflessness. It’s almost always about a mix of self-loathing and lack of faith in their friends, and it’s a version of the character that asks a lot of the audience. It’s asking you to watch someone you enjoyed as a hero consistently and flagrantly do villainous shit, while grimly excoriating the other heroes that are begging him to, like, stop drowning so many puppies. We just watched Kento go through an incredibly similar story last season – The Only Way To Save The World Is To Destroy The Heroes That Are Stupidly Resisting My Violent And Grim Altruism – and Daiji’s third act descent into sweaty mania does not improve by comparison. It’s a tough version of the character to spend even an episode with, and an entire arc starts to get to be a grind to watch. It’s… I don’t know that I’d recommend shows go back to the well as often as the producers of these two shows attempted with this type of storyline. It’s a little too frustrating to watch.

I didn’t hate it, though.

I mean, I hate the Weekend Vs Fenix stuff; that stuff can get dropped into the same portal Giff is in, and then I can forget about all three of them. Asking me to care about Akaishi or Weekend Dad is a place I can’t get to, and I feel like I’ve given the benefit of the doubt to a lot on this show. As always, any shift away from family dynamics (even the weird-o family dynamic of Akaishi as the Igarashis’ weird uncle) inevitably disappoints, and squanders the special chemistry of this show’s take on Family. Neither Weekend nor Fenix have suitably articulated their appeal to the citizenry of Japan beyond survival, and that’s a theme that this show doesn’t do a lot to support. The way societies trade safety for freedom is a very cool concept for a show to explore… like in Build. Revice isn’t that show! It needs to stop trying to be!

It’s a show about families, and that’s where it can redeem a whole lot of content that otherwise actively grates. Daiji’s victimhood and self-righteousness are repellant character traits, but contrasting them with Ikki and Sakura’s aggravation and desperation instead make them pitiable. Daiji’s so sure he’s right that he can’t hear any other arguments – mostly because he killed the part of himself that’s able to question his choices when it comes to Ikki. As much as Daiji tries to frame his activities as For The Greater Good, he goes to the Weekend bunker to either steal away Ikki’s supporters, or just to murder Ikki. He’s couching everything in humility and necessity, but that’s only to absolve him of the responsibility for his actions. He’s not fighting Ikki because Ikki’s defending people’s right to choose, Ikki’s forcing Daiji to stop him from meddling. Giff isn’t a threat to humanity, Ikki is. This is all, like, Daiji 101 – nothing’s Daiji’s fault, everything is something Ikki has ruined for Daiji, but no one else sees it. It’s like when Sakura screams that Daiji’s changed, and Daiji replies that he hasn't, Ikki and Sakura have. I mean, he’s half right!

That sort of dedication to making Daiji as confused and oblivious as possible… I really like it as a story move, but I don’t think I’d ever recommend this storyline to anyone, or fight super hard to defend it. Even when it feels like a natural development, grounded in established motivations and actions – it’s still not super fun to watch. It’s repetitive, because it has to be. This isn’t one bad day for Daiji, it’s a systematic embrace of a lifestyle that lets him feel like the martyr that his brother always was. It’s Daiji being a radioactive piece of shit (he straight-up pulls a gun on his family at the cliffhanger!) for multiple episodes, with the faint hope of a redemption arc to make this all feel cathartic at some point. That asks a lot of the audience! Arguably too much!

So, yeah, I liked this episode’s spotlight on Daiji’s instability, but I totally get if – like Sakura – y’all didn’t.

[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Boy, I really really really gotta push back on this interpretation. So much of the Kagerou/Daiji story is about how Kagerou comes from Daiji, and that viewing Kagerou as somehow separate from (and independent of) Daiji risks misdiagnosing Daiji's emotional issues. That's why things are real bad right now! Because Daiji's like I Defeated Kagerou, when Kagerou was only ever a manifestation of Daiji's deep-seated resentment and jealousy! So Daiji is unprepared for another descent into rage-filled judgment of Ikki!

It's just being human to feel things and emotions such as jealousy, happiness, sadness, anxiety, angry, etc. You're thinking that someone having self-loathing, jealousy, or fear means there's something wrong within them? Because it's not (inherently) and feelings/emotions aren't "not okay" to be felt. What's determines it is how you act and handle those feelings. It's not that having resentment is inherent problem in Daiji, but it starts becoming a problem when he starts turning into dictator's accomplice and self-righteously ignoring others' points of view. And for now Daiji's still a different person from Kagerou that, Kagerou was a malicious being enjoying others' suffering especially those he targets, though he can keep those that can give him enjoyment alive, while Daiji is self-righteous zealot who has with us or against us approach - as if losing Kagerou puts Daiji too much on the order side (chaos isn't inherently bad - which Kagerou provides). And would you think that if Daiji doesn't have these issues, Kagerou will perish not by him defeating them in battle? Unless you do take into account regarding what doses those feelings have in someone (it does sound that having feelings are inherent problem for Daiji before).

Other than that, can you give your thoughts to my older replies here?

(Mystery Episode 1 - even though Ikki does save the day by seeing the best in monsters too...)

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Yeah, the moral beacons of justice in Kamen Rider is often shown to be the type who see the best in people. But I honestly hate it when mistrusting or thinking someone's lying is considered unheroic. Which is where I don't necessarily view idealism and kindness as one-part, of which the former is your worldview, yeah, the part of seeing the best, while the latter is an action, to do good to others. I don't want for goodness to look even more bad (and stupid/blind) and got discouraged. Being good and being mistrustful aren't mutually exclusive. Good people can be just as discerning and mistrustful as any hardened, gruffy character but they feel no obligation to wear their healthy sense of skepticism on their sleeve in plain view. At that point, all one has to do is keep their wits about them and observe.

(https://www.tokunation.com/forums/sh...&postcount=452)

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You've said before regarding how you disagree with Hiromi's recklessness, which I do too, and, there are some people who claim at this point Daiji becomes "too heroic" here for his self-destructive approach and that gets on my skin. Even though it's true that Kagerou is needed here to balance out Daiji's traits, but if it's about Kagerou being calm and calculating, then it'd not be an evil trait, it's just using rational thinking, good or evil depends if it's used for strategy against bad guys or to scheme.

[Layton13]

Ok, funny enough, completely different take here.

As someone who likes family focused Tokusatsu, Magiranger is absolutely wonderful, I think the „Freedomless Peace“ vs „Peacless Freedom“ is what I wish the show was about, because I think it’s woefully unequiped for the family stuff.

Every time it that peace and freedom conflict is pulled up, the show finally starts to focus even the tiniest bit.

That said, 100% my most unfair criticism against the show, not being what I want it to be. I generally don’t think there is much worth in that kind of criticism since it ignores what the writers wanted to do, so it just ends up as wishful thinking.

But man, I‘d loved to see this conflict more.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

You're thinking that someone having self-loathing, jealousy, or fear means there's something wrong within them? Because it's not (inherently) and feelings/emotions aren't "not okay" to be felt.

I definitely don't think that, and I don't think that's what I was saying? I'm not trying to judge Daiji, I'm trying to point out that categorizing Kagerou as somehow outside of Daiji -- rendering him a villain that can and should be defeated -- is sort of exactly the trap that Daiji himself falls into. Daiji's negative emotions, expressed through the manifestation of Kagerou, are inherent to Daiji; he needs to confront and accept them, not refuse to take responsibility for them by "defeating" Kagerou. Hope that makes more sense.

As for the other stuff... I gotta be honest, I'm not ever that keen to chime in for or against what "some people" say. If you want to personally make an assertion or push back on an interpretation or complain about a story choice, great; that's the stuff I want to hear. But I can't respond to second-hand accounts or generalized conjecture. That's all personal interpretation disguised as objective reality, and I kind of can't put much energy into that sort of dialogue. Sorry to disappoint!