[Androzani84]

Me? I loved this. The cast felt like they were having more of a ball making this than some of the show’s later episodes, where they often looked bored. As for the Juuga/Olteca rivalry… look, 10000 people wanted to see it, so they can’t be an unpopular ship/rivalry.

And in more casting trivia, the two actresses Hana hires to dupe Olteca are the suit actresses for Aguilera and Lovekov, while the younger version of Mr. Takeda is played by Kazuya Sato, the suit actor for Uva, Gremlin, Gridon, Copy Makoto, Graphite, Parad-DX, Evolt, Another Zi-O (also a stand-in for regular Zi-O) and Desast.

Also, people were annoyed that Olteca’s Chameleon Genomix was the Zenrin Shooter… despite the fact he explicitly went to Rinna to modify his Driver, and she was the one who provided him with the stamp to activate it. It’s definitely an intentional part of the script, and not cost cutting. They also thought that KR Olteca should’ve reused Build OctopusLight’s legs, despite those not even looking remotely octopus-like.

Olteca: It’s Makoto and…

Rinna: Rinna’s…

Both: Stamp Navi!

Olteca: Thank you for agreeing to do this with me.

Rinna: Oh, it’s no problem. You’re letting me take a poke at FENIX technology. I always wanted to look at it, but Chief Akaishi and Professor Karizaki always kept it out of my grasp.

Olteca: Well Akaishi is gone now, as is Karizaki, meaning you get to talk about this Vistamp

Kraken!

Cry Crime! Dead Crisis! Kraken!

Rinna: This was the Daiouika Vistamp when I received it, but I decided to give it a punchier name. My work on the Drive System with Krim payed off and allowed me to modify this Stamp and Demons Driver to not require an inner demon. (Doorbell rings) Oh, you take over, Makoto-kun. I’ve got a visitor. (Runs off)

Decide Up! Rise. (Rise) Rage. (Rage) Requiem. (Sadness) Kamen Rider!

Olteca: And also, rather than animals, my Kamen Rider form can use the power of the Legend Riders that the Vistamps represent. That gives me greater versatility than any of George Karizaki’s systems. (Stops silent to listen closely) Ah, it seems that if you speak of the devil, he shall appear. I’d better go and greet him. Goodbye.

He walks off. Fade to black.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Me? I loved this. The cast felt like they were having more of a ball making this than so,e of the show?s alter episodes, where they often looked bored. As for the Juuga/Olteca rivalry? look, 10000 people wanted to see it, so they can?t be an unpopular ship/rivalry.

It's so weird to hear that this was an in-demand ship, since I never once saw any spark between the two of them. (Now, George and Hiromi? Yes, 1000%.) But I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed it, and that the producers were trying to meet fan excitement with a TTFC project. That's the system working as intended!

And, as always, thanks for the fun skit!

[Layton13]

Ok, let's first agree with you on something.

This is 100% the writers trying to create something out of nearly nothing with their rivalry.

That said...

It still results in the best dynamic the show spawned?

At least for me.

There is actually some meat to this! Subtext! Actual stuff that works!

It takes aspects from the show and mirrors them in a way never intended, but it fits flawlessly.

Olteca and George are surprisingly similar, intelligent people with shitty father figures that messed them up big time.

George strove forward on his own, becoming a dubious scientist who was willing to sacrifice everyone for his goals.

Olteca was supported by a father figure but showed himself to be the exact same cruel monster, pushing everyone away till he was just as alone.

Both are the smartest person in the room, partially because they are indeed quite smart but also because they have the ego for it.

The simple difference is George ultimately learned to move on. To evolve and become someone else in the process. Someone better. Not completely new, but a better person and, ultimately, Kamen Rider.

Olteca hasn't. He is still the exact same person, unable to cope with the fact that the world has moved on. That everything he thought was certain has shifted, and because of that is now alone.

And... my god, does it work for me!

He has become anti-character growth! Perpetually stuck to be beaten down by people who grow. He'll only grow weaker and weaker compared to them.

And the special makes it feel like George knows that. That's why he gives him the time of day to mock him. He actively sees himself in him to an extent. And, even if he can't stand him, he wants him to grow past it.

And it mixes wonderfully with the story the special tells. Of someone so bitter, his hatred extends to even the next generation. He is Olteca if he stays on that path.

It also somehow manages to merge all three major versions of Geroge and create something cohesive.

He's still overconfident to the extreme, has no qualms in manipulating people to get what he wants, and lording his superiority over them like when he first showed up. Yet, he clearly has managed to focus this into something constructive, not destructive, which mirrors the middle of the show George and he still clearly has made peace with who his father was, like the end of his "arc".

These two characters I want to see more off.

This special takes the broken pieces of Revice and pieces something cohesive and great out of it!

It says something about family without spouting platitudes and surface-level nothingness. It manages to write these characters cohesively. And it manages to achieve what it sets out to do without any major missteps.

To me, at least, that is peak Revice!

[Sh Ranger]

I wrote a pretty long review for this special 2 months ago, so check that out if you want.

If you want the short version.... As someone who was disappointed with how the show left Olteca's arc open-ended, I appreciate how this special focuses more on Olteca as a character, instead of dismissing him as some generic evil dude for the heroes to beat up. Ironically, despite his rivalry with George being the focus here, his interaction with Tamaki is my favorite scene, which I explain about in more detail in the review I linked above. While everybody else is trolling Olteca, Tamaki actually bothers to give him some advice and I was impressed to hear that he's finally moved on from following Aguilera so he can be his own person. He's easily the character most concerned with encouraging Olteca's slow rehabilitation than anybody else and I have to respect him for that.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

And it mixes wonderfully with the story the special tells. Of someone so bitter, his hatred extends to even the next generation. He is Olteca if he stays on that path.

I'm glad to hear you dug this one! I don't know if the comparison to Mister What's-His-Name works for me, since Orteca immediately turns on the guy, and subsequently learns absolutely nothing he didn't already know. This is resolutely not a story where Orteca really grows or improves, somewhat pointedly so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

While everybody else is trolling Olteca, Tamaki actually bothers to give him some advice and I was impressed to hear that he's finally moved on from following Aguilera so he can be his own person. He's easily the character most concerned with encouraging Olteca's slow rehabilitation than anybody else and I have to respect him for that.

So, I could be reading into this wrong, but it looked like Tamaki is actually still working with/for Hana? When he gets the phone call, he says that he's supposed to keep an eye on Orteca, and it sounds like it's the same job Hana has? I feel like Tamaki is still working at the Natsuki Detective Agency, and he's just "in disguise" at the department store.

[Layton13]

Funny enough, this special made me want to do a scene where Tamaki and Hana are struggling against an antagonist and Olteca comes in to help them on the lines of "The only one who beats you is me!" or something like that before all three are taken out because way too many characters.

I just find the idea of all 3 Deadman Rider fighting together kinda interesting, but the fact they can't work together making that point mute xD

I don't know why, but I love the idea xD

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

REVICE FORWARD: KAMEN RIDER LIVE & EVIL & DEMONS

The one fresh thing in here is, perhaps unsurprisingly, the best thing this movie has going for it: Rumi and Hiromi’s bond. Way more than new suits (hideous) and an EP’s worth of new songs (not my thing), the addition of a niece for Hiromi is a legitimate evolution of his character, and an exciting concept to explore in a film. We’ve seen Hiromi as a son, and as a Work Dad, but what is he like with a child to protect? What does that do to his sense of responsibility? How does that interact with his new outlook on supporting others, rather than charging recklessly into battle?

Weird, I thought Hi-Rumi part takes up significant part of the movie, though ofc didn't really count how much percentage of the screentime of each parts. Though Hiromi's straight-up good, I've seen this kind of story of the protector and victim being stuck together and bonding, used in more morally grey heroes or outright bad guys (being called uncle too, on someone even younger) to humanize them instead, with that being used to justify the latter as a really good guy smh. Sure mostly what those are going through is mostly the same as what Hi-Rumi did, but it's the case of them discriminating against that specific victim to anyone else unlike Hiromi. And regarding Hiromi being actually-80-year-old, he'd not be really an uncle by that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Like, I never for a second thought Muramasa was Hiromi’s devil. For one, everything Kagerou (forever the voice of reason) points out via flashbacks: Hiromi’s devil was seen and destroyed in the first episode of Revice; while some people can generate a new devil, it’s not heart-on-their-sleeve goodies like Hiromi; we never saw it happen, so why are we taking Muramasa’s word for it. For another, the Chameleon Vistamp is right there in the opening sequence. The Chameleon Vistamp, which was integral for switching out Wakabayashi with a duplicate in Revice. It all adds up, and it’s frustrating to watch the movie insist It’s Definitely A Devil for so long when it’s obviously not. It requires no one to trust Hiromi, which is a huge thematic thing in the film, and it also requires multiple characters to be morons, which is not as much of a theme. (It’s more of a motif.) Sakura, Hana, and Tamaki watch a Hiromi that’s dressed up like a gangster change his hair and eye color while calling a wounded Hiromi a devil, and they’re all like YES KILL immediately. It’s dumb, and most of this plot is dumb.

It maybe runs on how a devil works on someone can vary, like the differences between Vice, Kagerou, and Lovekov, even though Hiromi's devil was alredy killed. Particularly that Hiromi isn't the only heart-on-their-sleeve goodie, where there's Ikki too, and Kagerou claims Daiji is that, where he feels that is a weakness. Felt that perhaps this establishes how Aguilera handles things as a good guy, outside of Sakura stuff, that she may can jump into fights and violence quickly, albeit dunno why Tamaki would do the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The idea of a movie that’s about seeing characters like Kagerou as an aspect of Daiji, rather than an evil twin or whatever… I don’t think that was a thing we needed to learn? I feel like that’s a huge part of Daiji’s arc from Revice, and the introduction of Eviltytlive is built on the idea that Daiji now sees the value and necessity of Kagerou in his life. I don’t know why Revice Forward thought we needed to hear that lesson all over again, alongside Wakabayashi yet again becoming a Force Ghost to tell Hiromi the same lesson he learned back on the Revice TV show, but I guess it fits alongside this film’s use of so much footage from Revice.

Feels that there's more to show regarding how Kagerou acts as one of the "good guys" now, he really keeps his obnoxious personality, throwing insults left and right, albeit he had a lil more concern regarding Rumi's fate at the end. Albeit I don't really understand what pushes him to have more feelings to others than before, like using his secret plan to help Daiji and Hiromi, perhaps it's to boast about how he's better than Daiji and rub it in his face. It feels as if Daiji took his "revenge" to have him keep Kagerou in the dark regarding his plan for that, albeit perhaps the audience would still mock Daiji as the lame one compared to Kagerou.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

I just find the idea of all 3 Deadman Rider fighting together kinda interesting, but the fact they can't work together making that point mute xD

I don't know why, but I love the idea xD

I would absolutely be down for a legit Revice Forward: Giffamilia movie. The toxicity of that group -- where even the "well-adjusted" members are sulky cult survivors and stalkery trauma victims -- has a ton of potential, and it's a shame we only got flashes of it post-Orteca Eatening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Feels that there's more to show regarding how Kagerou acts as one of the "good guys" now, he really keeps his obnoxious personality, throwing insults left and right, albeit he had a lil more concern regarding Rumi's fate at the end. Albeit I don't really understand what pushes him to have more feelings to others than before, like using his secret plan to help Daiji and Hiromi, perhaps it's to boast about how he's better than Daiji and rub it in his face. It feels as if Daiji took his "revenge" to have him keep Kagerou in the dark regarding his plan for that, albeit perhaps the audience would still mock Daiji as the lame one compared to Kagerou.

Yeah, even though Kagerou is able to work with Hiromi and Daiji on the side of justice, he's a still a chaotic asshole who needs to show off whenever possible. Teaming with Daiji is fun; teaming with Daiji in a way where Kagerou can make him feel bad about himself is even better.

[Kamen Rider Die]

THREAD WRAP-UP



And that’s it for “Kamen Rider Die watches Kamen Rider Revice”!

As always, huge thanks to everyone who stopped by and shared their thoughts and feelings about Revice. I truly appreciate anyone who wanted to pitch in on the discussion. You’re the best! Well, the actual best is Androzani84, who cataloged every conceivable Vistamp and Driver with educational and entertaining skits. This thread wouldn’t’ve been what it was without Androzani, and I’m glad to have created a space where so much cool trivia could be relayed in such a clever manner.

This was an interesting thread, and I learned a lot doing it. Namely: maybe don’t do a thread dedicated to a show that finished airing a year ago? Didn’t seem like folks had many fond memories of ol’ Revice, and I think the lack of supporters made for a, uh, different experience than usual. I love hearing people’s opinions, but I don’t think these threads are as fun when it’s either all love or all hate. Need that mix, that contrast, or else the discovery process suffers somewhat. Getting a little more distance from a series seems like a requirement to gain perspective. We’ll see in the future!

And, speaking of the future.

This is the end of a road I’d started off on almost four years ago, with the random decision to chronicle my experience watching Kamen Rider Ghost. The intent was always to get current with my Kamen Rider watching, and I’ve finally done it. I’ve watched not only Ghost and Build and Zi-O and the Reiwa stuff, I’ve even taken a detour through all of Phase 1 Heisei. I’m up to where Geats begins, and I’ve already done the first 30 episodes of that show. (Excited to catch up over the next week or so!) All of this writing and discussion, it was to get me to this point. The end.

Except, no.

No, I won’t be stopping these threads, even though I seem to have run out of goals. I like this. I like what we do here. I’ve liked it every single time, with every single show. I can’t imagine giving up this part of my fandom, so I’m not going to. But there’s going to be some changes, for a variety of reasons.

This is the last Kamen Rider Die Watches thread for 2023. I need an extended break, very badly. While I adore this experience, I’ve definitely prioritized it in a way that is not exactly great for my professional or personal life. I need to have a less regimented connection to the fandom, and six months of no writing or posting sounds like a dream. My hope is to be kicking around other threads in the meantime, since that’s yet another area of my life that got sidelined by these threads. I look forward to randomly popping into conversations! Which is not to say that it’s going to be all lazing about for Kamen Rider Die. Nope! A huge chunk of the rest of this year is going to be spent on two major projects.

The first is the grueling, boring task of going through old threads to fix dead image links and clean up formatting issues that seem to be endemic to TokuNation now. I’ve hit a few threads, and I hope to have everything else cleaned up by the end of this year. I spent a lot of time on those threads, and I’d sort of like them to look their best?

Which is why the second thing I’m working on is migrating all of that content to KamenRiderDie.com. (Do not bother clicking that link! There’s nothing there but a landing page! You don’t want to see the actual site just yet!) It’s going to take a lot of work, but I like the idea of those old threads living in a more permanent, discoverable place. Every post’ll link back to the boards, so people can follow along with the unforgettable discussions, but the posts themselves will be archived in a way that makes me less nervous about the future of this particular site.

To be clear, new threads will always start on TokuNation, because that’s where you guys are. Nothing I do means anything until you participate, and that’s why anything I plan on doing will start here. Once a thread’s done, I’ll probably spend a few weeks transferring it over to my site, but it’ll still be available here for anyone that wants to interact with it. New threads are always for you all first.

So let’s talk about those new threads.

The current plan is to start back up in January 2024. (I may drop in Pretty Den-O and Outsiders later this year; no promises!) I’m looking to do two threads each year, but that’s subject to how things feel and what my schedule looks like. I’ll likely be reducing posting to five times a week, Thursday through Monday, with Tuesday and Wednesday off. Otherwise, it’ll be business as usual. Here is the lineup for the next few years:

Kamen Rider Die rewatches Kamen Rider W (and watches Fuuto PI)
Kamen Rider Die watches A SENTAI
Kamen Rider Die rewatches Kamen Rider OOO
Kamen Rider Die watches A TOKU ANIME
Kamen Rider Die rewatches Kamen Rider Fourze
Kamen Rider Die watches A MAGICAL GIRL TOKU
Kamen Rider Die rewatches Kamen Rider Wizard
Kamen Rider Die watches AN ULTRAMAN
Kamen Rider Die rewatches Kamen Rider Gaim
Kamen Rider Die watches A POWER RANGERS
Kamen Rider Die rewatches Kamen Rider Drive
Kamen Rider Die TRUCKS WITH SHOWA
Kamen Rider Die rewatches the first half of Kamen Rider Ghost
Kamen Rider Die watches INOUE FOREVER
Kamen Rider Die rewatches Kamen Rider Ex-Aid

…and that should take us to, like, 2031? Or thereabouts? Christ. Watching Ex-Aid and writing it up is another huge milestone for me, and where the next chapter of this project ends. Ex-Aid’s where I started on Kamen Rider, and I’m excited to imagine a day where I can rewatch it again with all of you. (It’ll’ve been over a decade since I first watched it by then, so it’s basically going to be brand new!) After that, I’ll probably do Geats, Gotchard, etc. We’ll see how we all feel by then, I guess. Let’s see when we’re on the other side of those 15 proposed threads.

(Oh, and don’t bother guessing/suggesting shows for the non-Rider threads. I already have the shows in mind, but I’d like to save the reveals until the threads are ready to go. Speculate as much as you want, but I’m not confirming anything.)

And, gosh, I think that’s everything? This thread is still yours to play around with, even if I’m not adding to it anymore. We’re family, and families share. I’ll be around, but probably not in any organized way. (I’ll definitely let people know when the new site has any, y’know, content.) You’re the greatest fandom in the world for continuing to let me be weird about the shows I like, and I’m happy not to be going anywhere anytime soon. See you back here in the new year for “Kamen Rider Die rewatches Kamen Rider W (and watches Futto PI)”!

[Deepsea]

Congrats Die! I'm excited to eventually get to Ghost and Ex-aid... I.E the only two toku I've ever completed... man I'm bad at this being a fan thing.