[Switchblade]

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Originally Posted by Daikaijuman54

Before I discuss the finale, I'd like to say, while I enjoyed Legend and his portions, but I think they should have been their own thing instead of shoehorning him into the main show, since it didn't contribute much to the main plot other than reveal the Philosopher Stone in Hotarou, and boy, does everything feel last minute!

I am convinced that the Legend episodes were written as a summer movie and somehow ended up being reworked into an arc on the show. Everything about it felt more like a movie, up to and including all of the big crowd scenes where a bunch of extras cheered on the Kamen Riders.

[Mesnick]

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

It's a good metaphor!

Thanks!

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Which one's your favorite?

Saber. And, if we talk about the franchise as a whole, it shares honorable first place with W.

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Lachesis died as a human, so I think Spanner would leave it at that.

Yes, because he might as well bring his parents back. Although this is clearly necromancy, not alchemy.

[Enchilada645]

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Originally Posted by Switchblade

I am convinced that the Legend episodes were written as a summer movie and somehow ended up being reworked into an arc on the show. Everything about it felt more like a movie, up to and including all of the big crowd scenes where a bunch of extras cheered on the Kamen Riders.

Considering the placement of Legend's upgrade in regards to toys being listed, it's highly unlikely that it was ever planned to be a summer movie.

A TTFC special though? Maybe yeah, that I could see.

[Daikaijuman54]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

I am convinced that the Legend episodes were written as a summer movie and somehow ended up being reworked into an arc on the show. Everything about it felt more like a movie, up to and including all of the big crowd scenes where a bunch of extras cheered on the Kamen Riders.

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Originally Posted by Enchilada645

Considering the placement of Legend's upgrade in regards to toys being listed, it's highly unlikely that it was ever planned to be a summer movie.

A TTFC special though? Maybe yeah, that I could see.

Aye! It sort of feels like that because Gotchard uses Cards and that this was technically a bit of an Anniversary Season (whether by fifth Reiwa Rider or because Toei stretched the 50th Anniversary to 2023 because of Shin Kamen Rider, I mean, look at Gotchard and tell me this wasn't intentionally meant to be a reference to Ichigo which they also did with Gazer's Special), they decided Legend was the perfect idea.

Now I haven't seen Outsiders yet, but I do feel like something similar for Legend, having his own dedicated companion show would have worked a little better, but I still enjoyed Legend overall.

[Mesnick]

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Originally Posted by Daikaijuman54

Now I haven't seen Outsiders yet, but I do feel like something similar for Legend, having his own dedicated companion show would have worked a little better, but I still enjoyed Legend overall.

Speaking off topic about Outsiders, they really should have been released as a separate film. Because in their current form they are similar to fan fiction, not only in plot, but also in the manner of presentation. I just want to write to Takahashi: "Author, where is the continuation?"
Legend are tolerable, but it's quite possible that this is because I don't really like Decade either. Therefore, the more parody version is generally pleasant to me.

[Zolda]

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Geryon's plan to transmute the world in to gold was flawed, hence why Houtarou was able to move at all, instead of becoming a Houtarou-shaped piece of gold. It was merely a layer of gold plating that Houtarou used as the material to create the Chemy World, which seems like a reference to Kamen Rider using the power of evil to do good.

No. The only thing flawed in this episode was Hiroki Uchida's reasoning. Glion had absorbed 99% of the Philosopher's Stone, and he had also created the remaining 1% to substitute Nijigon's portion, so his portion was now 100%. He was now a God, in the most literal sense. Like Germain said in episode 40 @ 09:38, the Unholy Trinity was the creator of alchemy, and that's why Glion had the ambition to open the Door of Darkness. Glion wanted to use the power of God (the Unholy Trinity) to perform infinite amount of chrysopoeia, aka transmuting objects into pure gold, to realize his El Dorado obsession. Yet, in the most typical Yuuya Takahashi's way of doing an asspull, Hiroki Uchida casually violated that internal logic, the most fundamental internal logic in this story, simply because he wanted Houtarou to win against Glion.

Glion was 100% God now, so he now possessed the complete power of the creator of alchemy. ...And the best thing he could do was merely gilding objects? That's hilarious. You don't even need an alchemist to gild objects with 0,01 micrometer of gold coating. Even Muggles could easily gild objects via basic level of chemistry and physics. If the God of your alchemy story could only gild objects at his best, not perform infinite amount of chrysopoeia, then your alchemy story was very likely already FUBAR since episode 1. That's a sure sign of a crappy writing.

This is why I've stated several times that making a God-level villain is a very very very dangerous trope that's often abused by hack writers. I elaborated how a God-level villain is one of the main symptoms of a crappy writing in the episode 43 thread here and episode 48 thread here. Making a God-level villain will only create a very very very shallow, superficial excitement, but when it comes the time for the human hero to defeat him, you'll inevitably create a gazillion of logical anomalies that are virtually impossible to resolve because you'll be forced to drag your God-level villain to the level of your human hero. You'll be forced to make your God-level villain do stupid mistakes, and or make stupid and irrational decisions, and or violate the most fundamental internal logic regarding God-level villain's power. If I'm forced to violate the most fundamental aspect of the internal logic of my story simply for the sake of making the hero win, then I should congratulate myself for being such a bad writer that has successfully written himself into a corner.

TLDR:
Making a God-level villain is the worst possible way to write yourself into a corner.

Oh, and there were several other unresolved logical anomalies that I forgot to mention in my last post:
- What the heck happened in Houtarou's past where he had already befriended Hopper1 and Steamliner? What's the point of the revelation in episode 14 @ 19:11? Don't know!
- What the heck did Kid Houtarou in the Ouroboros world in episode 18? What's the point of him being there and playing with Hopper1 and Steamliner? Don't know!
- How the heck did the Alchemist of Dawn (very likely a human) defeat the uber-demon (the singular entity of the Unholy Trinity/God) 120 years ago? Don't know!

Well, my questions aren't relevant anymore. They don't matter anymore. The series had ended, so what's the point of asking those questions? The writers had 50 episodes to answer them, and they squandered every single opportunity they had. Very unfortunate!

[Enchilada645]

I mean Steamliner has been seen to be able to roam between Ouroboros and Earth as it pleased compared to others. So it's pretty easy to figure that the two Chemies just saw a kid, decided to have fun with him, and took him to Ouroboros for the heck of it given while they're fairly pure, still mischievous.

It's not that hard to really fill in the blanks when you put a bit of imagination into it. And on that last point, again, not everything needs to be explained. Sounds like you just want to be spoon fed super long explanations to satiate the uncontrollable amount of theory crafting you did to feel satisfied. And because they didn't do what you wanted, you've resorted to childishly calling out the writers and series for some reason. Very unfortunate.

[Mesnick]

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Originally Posted by Enchilada645

I mean Steamliner has been seen to be able to roam between Ouroboros and Earth as it pleased compared to others. So it's pretty easy to figure that the two Chemies just saw a kid, decided to have fun with him, and took him to Ouroboros for the heck of it given while they're fairly pure, still mischievous.

And this is a great story for a special.

[Zolda]

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Originally Posted by Enchilada645

I mean Steamliner has been seen to be able to roam between Ouroboros and Earth as it pleased compared to others. So it's pretty easy to figure that the two Chemies just saw a kid, decided to have fun with him, and took him to Ouroboros for the heck of it given while they're fairly pure, still mischievous.

It's not that hard to really fill in the blanks when you put a bit of imagination into it. And on that last point, again, not everything needs to be explained. Sounds like you just want to be spoon fed super long explanations to satiate the uncontrollable amount of theory crafting you did to feel satisfied.

There are several logical anomalies in your explanation:
- Steamliner moved between the Ouroboros world and Houtarou's world not because he was being playful nor mischievous, but because he was commanded by Fuga (in the beginning of episode 1) or Houtarou (in the beginning of episode 27).
- Steamliner was kept by Fuga (and the AU) in the form of RCC ten years ago. Why did Fuga allow him to roam free and kidnap a random, unsuspecting Muggle kid and bring him to the Ouroboros to play? A flying locomotive kidnapping a random kid would definitely attract the Muggles' attention. Didn't the AU prefer to do things discreetly?
- How was Kid Houtarou able to perform an advanced alchemical trick in episode 18 when he didn't even wear a Ring? Even if Fuga commanded Steamliner to search for a potential kid that could understand Chemies and become the user of the Gotchardriver like I elaborated in points #1 and #2 above, a random Muggle kid without any previous exposure to alchemy can't just perform an advanced alchemical trick, let alone perform it without a Ring. One of the most plausible ways to resolve this logical anomaly is by making Houtarou a child prodigy that already had exposures to alchemy, not a random Muggle kid with no exposure to alchemy. Episode 18 also mentioned Houtarou's dad, which might've implied that Houtarou was the son of an SSS+ alchemy like Fuga and Glion. Houtarou's dad was supposed to play an important role in the series but was failed to be developed by the writers due to the severe mismanagement during production. I hope the whole situation regarding Houtarou's dad will be finally resolved in the V-Cinema or TTFC episodes.

You made quite a big logical leap. Your explanation didn't fill in the blanks with imagination, but filled in the blanks with more logical anomalies. Your explanation resolved 1 plot hole by creating 3 new plot holes. Some blanks can be filled, while some can't. Some things can be inferred, while some can't. Those that can't be inferred need to be explained, whether via infodumps or scenes. If an inference/filling in the blanks creates more logical anomalies, then it means that those blanks must be one or several crucial parts of my story that were left out and or violated, which means I've created plot holes. Those plot holes should be resolved at the very least via an infodump, or ideally with one or several flashback scenes.

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Originally Posted by Enchilada645

And because they didn't do what you wanted, you've resorted to childishly calling out the writers and series for some reason. Very unfortunate.

Ah, yes. My favorite method of deflecting criticisms: Equating criticisms with personal attacks. Likening criticisms to personal attacks is how level-headed, emotionally mature adults deal with criticisms. :V

[Enchilada645]

And accepting that you will not be given answers for everything and that not every thing can be explained with logic is also the sign of an emotionally mature adult which you seem to be beyond for whatever reason.