[Switchblade]

You definitely deserve a break after all of this. I hope you enjoy your vacation and I look forward to seeing you go through all of these other shows (and maybe watch along on some).

I also look forward to repeatedly using the word "cartoon" in at least two of those threads to playfully troll anime fans.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deepsea

Congrats Die! I'm excited to eventually get to Ghost and Ex-aid... I.E the only two toku I've ever completed... man I'm bad at this being a fan thing.

Thanks! And it's totally cool to take your time with these shows; as many threads have proven, it's never too late to jump on a new show. They aren't going anywhere!

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

You definitely deserve a break after all of this. I hope you enjoy your vacation and I look forward to seeing you go through all of these other shows (and maybe watch along on some).

I also look forward to repeatedly using the word "cartoon" in at least two of those threads to playfully troll anime fans.

Thanks! I've literally spent every minute since posting the Thread Wrap-Up playing around with settings and inputs on the new site, so... yeah, "break". "Vacation". I am bad at project management!!!

(I am already anticipating you saying "cartoon" a lot! I think it's a weird distinction, that fans might rankle at a Japanese cartoon not being called "anime". Doesn't "anime" just mean "cartoon"? Like, "manga" is just the Japanese word for "comics", right? Please look forward to these and other outsider/old man takes several times next year!)

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

So, I could be reading into this wrong, but it looked like Tamaki is actually still working with/for Hana? When he gets the phone call, he says that he's supposed to keep an eye on Orteca, and it sounds like it's the same job Hana has? I feel like Tamaki is still working at the Natsuki Detective Agency, and he's just "in disguise" at the department store.

Tamaki specifically said, "I'm not Hana-san's follower anymore", so if he is still collaborating with Aguilera in some capacity, then it sounds like he's her equal, not her subordinate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

Funny enough, this special made me want to do a scene where Tamaki and Hana are struggling against an antagonist and Olteca comes in to help them on the lines of "The only one who beats you is me!" or something like that before all three are taken out because way too many characters.

The coolest line that every tsundere should know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

THREAD WRAP-UP

(Oh, and don?t bother guessing/suggesting shows for the non-Rider threads. I already have the shows in mind, but I?d like to save the reveals until the threads are ready to go. Speculate as much as you want, but I?m not confirming anything.)

Okay, I'll just make some predictions, for fun.

A SENTAI is Jetman, the first Inoue Sentai.

A MAGICAL GIRL TOKU is Cutie Honey The Live, also written by Inoue.

A POWER RANGERS is Dino Fury, the first season fully produced by Hasbro.

TRUCKS WITH SHOWA is Amazon, who I recall as your favorite Showa Rider of all time.

INOUE FOREVER is The First and The Next.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on Pretty Den-O and Double in a few months anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

I also look forward to repeatedly using the word "cartoon" in at least two of those threads to playfully troll anime fans.

I feel better knowing that you're at least aware of what you're doing.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Okay, I'll just make some predictions, for fun.

A SENTAI is Jetman, the first Inoue Sentai.

A MAGICAL GIRL TOKU is Cutie Honey The Live, also written by Inoue.

A POWER RANGERS is Dino Fury, the first season fully produced by Hasbro.

TRUCKS WITH SHOWA is Amazon, who I recall as your favorite Showa Rider of all time.

INOUE FOREVER is The First and The Next.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on Pretty Den-O and Double in a few months anyway.

Those sound like fun shows!

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I feel better knowing that you're at least aware of what you're doing.

That’s what makes it fun!

[Fish Sandwich]

First of all, as Tokunation's resident Revice fanatic (by default), I'd like to offer my apologies for not showing up in this thread earlier. A huge chunk of the reason behind that is because I hit the point where I needed an extended break well before you did, Die, as unfortunate as that is to say. Which is old news, I guess, since that much happened during your Zero-One thread. Saber was pretty much me running on empty the whole time, which maybe says something about how much I love Saber. I totally wanted to make all sorts of crazy elaborate posts there, maybe even do some kind of recurring shtick, but that was exactly the kind of time-consuming thing that was starting to wear me down after like years straight of being extremely active in your threads while also juggling weekly shows I want to talk about and whatever random project I'd made for myself that particular month. The lesson I took away from the Saber thread was that the most important thing was probably just to be there, rather than worrying about how much I had to say. A lesson I would no doubt carry forward with me into your thread for Revice, the finish line for this whole road so many of us have been on together for all this time, and a series probably in desperate need of some typically contrarian opinions from--

--well, uh, not from me, apparently. I was reading along for the first couple episodes worth of posts, but any time I went to try and contribute a thought of my own, I turned into Daiji picking up that Driver in the premiere, and chickened right the heck out. I don't think I've ever mentioned this explicitly, but uh, experiencing The Discourse surrounding Revice while it was airing might have legitimately traumatized me? It started out as this hot new rebound show it seemed tons of fans were propping up as much better than lame ol' Saber, which didn't get to me at all (Saber already had a much larger fanbase than I was expecting), but what did get under my skin was the sudden drastic shift in atmosphere somewhere around the halfway point, where The New Ghost somehow ended up being the series *after* the one literally made by all the people who made Ghost. I spent a lot of time during those months struggling with tons of complicated feelings regarding how I thought about Revice, how I approach just like, media in general, and how other people do as well. It was almost like this sort of existential crisis, and it's yet another reason I've been a bit scarce around here lately. Like it actually wounded me a bit. But you know, if I might mix character metaphors here, maybe I've been tossed off that cliff, been through an emotionally rich journey in a shockingly good Blu-ray spinoff, and am now ready to return to the fold, enlightened by my experiences and no less dedicated to my ideals. Indeed, I can now lay down my body and soul to say...

Revice really deserves a much better home than I think I can give it.

I mean, I barely even cared about this show when it started. Waaaaay too distracted by how much I loved Saber to give it more attention than the base level fun I was having each week. Then everyone starts hating it, and you know, I didn't even realize that was obviously the wake up call to do my thing and make arguments in the opposite direction. Instead, I spent a bunch of time having most of the same issues before I eventually started seeing the light. It's a mix of humorous and sad to read Die drawing the conclusion (correctly, as history keeps proving) that people simply need more time to come around to Revice, when I was rethinking all this stuff while it was still airing, learning to love the show at the expense of having any fun talking about it.

The difference is something I still struggle to peg down, compared to all the other shows in similar positions I'm always ready and eager to jump to the defense of. But I think that difference in where I originally stood is significant. It's like some sort of imposter syndrome thing where I want somebody else to do the job of loving Revice better than me. (Hence the "by default" up top.) At this point I'm basically running this big orphanage full of neglected toku shows, and I feel like Revice doesn't need Fish Sandwich, so much as it needs someone who is to Revice what I am to Ghost (or Wizard or Saber or Faiz or Ninninger or--). Someone who basically specializes in giving Revice specifically nothing but unconditional love and affection. Like, I can't be the person for that job, right? There'll at least be like, one person who'll show up to see qualities in Revice that even someone like me is yet to find... right?

Well, uh, judging by Die specifically calling out the absence of someone to fill that role throughout the thread, apparently not! I'm feeling a little guilty right now, as a matter of fact! It's only in the last week or so I've worked up the courage to catch up on the bulk of the thread, and considering Die was consistently doing his typical evenhanded best to call attention to both the failures and the successes he was seeing on screen, I no doubt missed out on plenty of chances to have much more pleasant discussions about Revice than my worst fears were leading me to believe.

So, I'm way too late to the party, and have already spent way too much time talking about myself, but for whatever it's worth, please allow to me to say:

It is the cruelest of ironies that so many people were unable to embrace the beauty in this messy, contradictory show about learning to embrace the messy, contradictory beauty of people.

Revice wasn't a show I started out caring much about either way, but it's proven itself to me as a series that greatly rewards the thought you're willing to put into it. It's been sitting with me extremely well over time, and for that reason in particular, I have no doubt in my mind that Revice will have its renaissance one day, no matter how long it takes. There's so much more to the stories it told than simply its questionably structured plots, and those stories were rich in thematic substance that can easily go toe to toe with the very best Rider has to offer.

For my part, it's not even the episodes I loved right away that make me so convinced of this. A lot of those, you all could probably guess. Episode 18 is maybe the easiest pick? The image of a wounded Ikki literally leaning on Vice for support, you know, those shots speak volumes thanks to the strong dramatic context they're put in. It's all the smart ideas the larger narrative was thoughtfully exploring, compressed immaculately into a wordless visual. No series capable of that could possibly be beyond redemption, which is maybe why episodes I didn't much care for initially quickly started to improve in retrospect, once I started properly digging into them.

Episode 28 is definitely the best example to point to here. The whole thing was lost on me at first. Best I could figure, it was just a less successful copy of 18. I didn't know how the Ikki/Vice drama here was saying anything new, and lines like the whole "We're not demons! We're Revice!" bit left me scratching my head trying to comprehend the meaning. It's a favorite in its own right now, and that made it a relief to see it was one Die gelled with immediately. Because now it's all so obvious to me. Like, duh, they're not demons because Revice is a dude and his inner demon, acknowledging each other as parts of the much stronger single complete whole person they become through their mutual acceptance. The literal single person! In that episode! I'm back there in the thread at the time saying the suit design is all I like about that form, and now here I am, profoundly moved by Ikki's tearful declaration that he'll protect Vice, which is clearly demonstrating that whole "mutual acceptance" thing I just said by reversing the typical roles those two play in their relationship, and is actually quite different from 18 in terms of the specific nuances of what it's trying to accomplish thematically! Like, that episode is absolutely a progression, not a retread, and it's one I'm constantly coming back to in my head when thinking about how premature I was being in dismissing quite a bit of what Revice was doing.

And that's barely even the tip of the iceberg, between episodes I liked right away, and ones I found the substance in later on. I mean, there's so much I could've, probably should've, hopefully someday will take an opportunity to go on and on about. Revice had so much to say that genuinely fascinates me, and especially when it comes back to that simple core idea of being able to love yourself, it's doing so much that speaks to me on a really personal level, the way I'm sure it will for others in the years to come, if those people aren't out there already. I'm just grateful I have my own inner demon of sorts -- that Kagerou in the back of my head always questioning the certainty of my opinions; that Vice telling me I'd have more fun if I'd just let myself -- so that I could realize I loved this show much quicker than I might've otherwise.

But that's once again about me, and it's about Revice, when the real thing I'm here to say above all else right now is simply -- congratulations, Die.

I couldn't have possibly imagined (and maybe you couldn't either!) how much this whole endeavor would grow from that one random thread about Ghost, but it really has been my pleasure to be a part of all these threads over the years, even if I only squeezed into this one at the last second. Like any great serialized journey, each installment was an adventure in its own right, and I'm sincerely grateful in particular for the opportunity to think back over all these shows as someone who had seen them all before. After all, like I tried to emphasize talking about Revice just now -- you find new things to love going back a lot more often than you find new things to hate. I think I know you well enough to know you'll want to flip that statement back around to how it's us participating that makes it worthwhile and everything, but (perhaps once again apropos for Revice!), it takes all those parts together to make the greater whole -- we can only participate because you gave us something worthwhile to participate in.

So enjoy your well-earned vacation. And I mean, seriously, please enjoy it! I've said this before, but the sheer stamina you bring to these things regularly humbles and amazes me. You're already giving yourself this whole new schedule, but really, take all the time you need off, and maybe even some extra time for the heck of it. You deserve it!

[Enchilada645]

Hello I am here, I kind of stopped posting for a while on the entirety of the forum for the most part because uh...

I'll be brutally honest, I just wasn't feeling it anymore.

The trajectory of certain discussions on this website have become exhausting, tedious, and repetitive to the point where I kind of had to take a long look and realize, yeah no, it's not worth it. Not even to the point of trying to give props to a show I think is good.

So yeah, that was mainly why I was absent (Kind of), though that doesn't mean I haven't been discussing bits and pieces with Die elsewhere so there was some positive balance even if it wasn't for all to see.

That being said, unless I really feel like replying to something, don't expect me around aside from my sporadic posts I've been doing as of late.

In the end though, congrats on finishing! Feels like an end of an era tbh

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I think I know you well enough to know you'll want to flip that statement back around to how it's us participating that makes it worthwhile and everything, but (perhaps once again apropos for Revice!), it takes all those parts together to make the greater whole -- we can only participate because you gave us something worthwhile to participate in.

I absolutely want to turn that statement around, and how dare you slip in at the 13th hour to make me take some minor amount of pride in what I do! HOW DARE.

But, no, I appreciate the beautiful sentiment, beautifully conveyed as always. You've been missed, but I never would want anyone's participation (even mine!) to feel obligatory. These things should be fun, and self-care is important. I loved getting to read just a little bit of your feelings about Revice, though, and it's super nice of you to share them here.

I hope things are going well for you, and I hope we're able to talk about toku again some day soon!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

The trajectory of certain discussions on this website have become exhausting, tedious, and repetitive to the point where I kind of had to take a long look and realize, yeah no, it's not worth it. Not even to the point of trying to give props to a show I think is good.

I'm actually really sorry to hear that? My goal, at all times, has been to create a space where everyone feels comfortable sharing their ideas. I loving getting to witness the kind of energy that goes along with pet theories and pet peeves; with arguments and agreements. It's sad to hear that this thread didn't feel like a place where you could fly your Revice flag, and I hope things change -- with me, with you, with the boards -- in some later thread someday. I look forward to eventually seeing some impassioned post about Phase 2 Heisei!

[Enchilada645]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I'm actually really sorry to hear that? My goal, at all times, has been to create a space where everyone feels comfortable sharing their ideas. I loving getting to witness the kind of energy that goes along with pet theories and pet peeves; with arguments and agreements. It's sad to hear that this thread didn't feel like a place where you could fly your Revice flag, and I hope things change -- with me, with you, with the boards -- in some later thread someday. I look forward to eventually seeing some impassioned post about Phase 2 Heisei!

You should not feel bad about it, love your threads tbh. While yes, the way some discussions went in this thread were the tipping point, it was me staring at the trajectory of a lot of threads in the site and realizing that it's just not fun anymore?

Not sure if I'll pop in for the Phase 2 threads purely because I don't feel the need to revisit Phase 2 Heisei anytime soon. I'll look forward to potentially chiming in on your other threads however!